Killing of animals is not required for human survival. Vegetarians have proved this for centuries. So, which is worse? Killing an animal unnecessarily because someone would rather eat meat than Tofu, or having sex with an animal? When these "animal rights" activists swear off killing animals for any purpose (no leather shoes, no leather coats, no leather seats in cars, etc.) than they have a moral platform to condemn those who only have sex with animals.
I'd much rather suffer a quick death than get sodomized by some pervert, resulting in serious internal injuries.
This doesn't address the issue of killing animals unnecessarily. If you eat meat, wear leather, use animal based products of any kind that require the death of the animal to acquire, you have no basis to condemn those who only have sex with animals. Even in our human justice system, those who murder are given stiffer penalties than those who commit rape or sodomy on another person.
I know, but personally I've always considered torture/serious injury to be a fate far worse than death. So in my mind, quick slaughter of animals for my dinner plate isn't too horrible, but a slow painful torture of those same animals would be unacceptable.
Many people rationalize the killing of animals to satisfy their palate, you are not uncommon in that area.
Actually Rearden there was a point in my life where I was very pro-choice. But for all the wrong reasons. Not because I believed a woman had a right to do what she wanted with her body, not because I thought life didn't begin at inception, not because of the cost of having a kid, but rather because I was a selfish f*ck to put it bluntly. Yup, there were times when I was younger that if a girl told me she was pregnant there wouldn't even have been a discussion. I would have driven her to planned parenthood myself and pulled her out of the car kicking and screaming. This was not going to be a CHOICE for anyone but me. Yup, I had all the fears of the the chic that would have been a nightmare had she told me she was pregnant. Scenarios that would have ruined my life. But then you know what happened Rearden? I had what alcoholics call a moment of clarity. An epiphany if you will. I realized that I had to be held accountable for all my actions in life whether I liked it or not. And so must every woman. See, if I didn't believe in this accountability, then I could give a great argument for chaos and anarchy. I could make excuses for every mistake in my life and always push the blame somewhere else. I could rape a girl and say I was drunk, I didn't know what I was doing. I could kill a man and call it self-defense. I could hurt other people physically and say I was provoked. I could steal and claim that it was poverty that led me to do it. See, what I came to see and understand was that in order for society to function as a whole, we need universal accountability for everyone. Not just for the rich or the poor, or the whites or the blacks, or the men or the women, but everyone. That means when Sadam Hussein violates 15 UN sanctions against him, there is a consequence. That means when a young kid kills somebody but he didn't know any better, there is consequences. When you piss away all your money gambling or trading, there are consequences. And yes, when you get a girl pregnant, there are consequences. To ignore these consequences would mean to ignore the very fabric of what holds our society together. Sure, when a guy goes out to get laid, he is not looking to hear from this girl 3 weeks later that she is pregnant. That of course is called an unwanted consequence. There are other unwanted consequences. The guy that drives home from the bar after having too much to drink and then gets involved in a head on collision and loses his life. Well he didn't intend for that to happen either. Or the guy that meets a girl at a bar and gets drunk and takes her home and then only after the girl says no he keeps going and he rapes her. That is an unwanted consequence. Or what about the father who is annoyed by his son's screaming and runs into the room and beats him with a bat and loses his temper, that has consequences too. Sometimes being late for work might just cost you your job even if you do have a really good excuse. That has a consequence. See these consequences are all around us. Yet if selectively choose which consequences we have to face, well, think about it. The rapist will always choose to ignore the consequences of his crime, the father who beats his kid will say hey, I didn't do anything wrong. The guy that drives home drunk and kills a family of 4 but yet he lives, he feels there should be no consequences. See if left to our own devices, we will always excuse our own behavior and condemn the behavior of others. Thats human nature. That is why accountability has to be universal. We must face the end results of our actions. If I blow out my trading account I can't ask for my money back. If I have unsafe sex and contract AIDS, no matter how hard and long I plead with the doctor, he cannot give me my life back. See Rearden, I came to a point in my life where I realized I can no longer blame others for my own actions. I had to take responsibility for everything I did. And that made sense. There was something really free about that. There was something very liberating about that. I remember in high school and college if I did very poorly on an exam the very first thing I would do is tell me parents knowing that they would eat into me for that. And none of my friends could understand why I would tell them. They didn't know that it actually felt good to me to tell them because it forced me to accept the end result of what I did and it never bothered me. The point is, I'm not a perfect person. I have made many mistakes in my life. But none of them bother me. None of them keep my up at night. You know why, because deep down inside I know that I got the result I was suppose to get. I didn't cheat myself. My life was fairly valued if you will. Not undervalued, not overvalued, but perfectly priced. Perfectly efficient. There is a feeling when you get to this point Rearden that I cannot describe. It allows you to be free for the first time ever. And there is nothing that replaces that feeling. So back to abortion. I believe that I have to be held accountable for everything I do, both good and bad. If I went out and had a one night stand and got a girl pregnant, to be honest with you, I would be completely prepared. I'm not saying I would marry this girl and spend the rest of my life with her. But would I help her bring this life into this world and financially support her? You bet I would. And would that bother me? No, that's my point. You see only when you realize that your life, your place in this world, is to be completely efficient with every choice you make, you no longer dwell on the mistakes you make or the wrong turns you take. You accept things as they should have happened. You admit to yourself that you got nothing more and nothing less then what you paid for. Like I said there isn't a better feeling in the world. You actually see life for what it is. A set of choices. You make the choices, then you see the results. No do overs in the game of life. That's what makes it so much fun. There is so much on the line with every decision you make. It's a gamblers nirvana. I don't expect you and perhaps others on this board to see my point of view because until you reach this zenith of understanding your own life, this will not make much sense. But if you are lucky, you will have this epiphany one day too, and I swear to you this, you will never be the same person ever again. You will finally reach a state of happiness that no amount of money, drugs or sex could ever give. Those things will only add to the happiness that you have every day. Remember, universal accountability. The choices you make, the end results of your actions, these are truly the things that will bring you happiness because you will see life as completely perfect. And in a perfect world, there are no unwanted pregnancies. Remember, you made the choice, the end result is exactly what it should be. Nothing more and nothing less. And that is why no other outcome could make you more happy. Because any other outcome then the one you got would not be fair. Think about it. One day you will agree with me.
So let me get this straight. You are comparing the unnecessary killing of animals with raping them and assume that since killing them is wrong, then it is ok to take a blind eye to raping them? What kind of twisted logic is this?
You misunderstand. I think raping animals is a sick act. I think unnecessary killing of animals is also a sick act. Do I think the government should enjoin people from having sex with animals in the privacy of their own homes? No, not as long as they continue to allow people to kill animals unnecessarily to satisfy their palates, fashion sense, enjoyment of the sport of hunting and fishing which results in the death of animals, etc. I see great contradiction and hypocrisy in killing animals unnecessarily, but justification of that action by animal killers because it satisfies taste and pleasure, and at the same time those same people express condemnation of those who choose to pleasure themselves at an animals expense in a sexual act. I would support legislation to prohibit sex with animals as long as that legislation also included prohibition of killing or harming animals unnecessarily. Humans don't have to kill animals to survive, wear shoes, wear clothing, etc.
>I see great contradiction and hypocrisy in killing >animals unnecessarily, but justification of that action >by animal killers because it satisfies taste and pleasure, >and at the same time those same people express >condemnation of those who choose to pleasure themselves >at an animals expense in a sexual act. I find that an extremely sensible position. JB
Seems to me that insofar as sex with an animal harms that animal, this is a matter for the SPCA. In fact, I believe a group of hunters were recently charged after sexually abusing a female hunting dog. Therefore, legislation already exists to deal with this issue. (Wondering if there are any laws against animal cruelty in Sweden...) As for killing animals for food, I am a vegan. However, I will not deny other people the right to eat meat. My objections center on the conditions under which 'food' animals are raised, transported and killed.