Hi Nice to hear a voice from the UK contingent! I've been trading for around 5 months, predominantly day trades and almost exclusively on the US Markets, using deal4free. Execution isn't bad on d4f but spreads on US stocks are a little wide - I guess that's the price to pay for "free" trading and use of a generous margin. Anyone got any other suggestions would be welcome. I too am based in Surrey - must be popular location for traders, and would love to find out what tools and resources my other Brits are using when investing in US markets. Bouds
Hi Bouds, I also use D4F sometimes.. IB my main thing but keep trying to see if D4F will start working properly one day. US stocks only too.. I find that the spreads on the faster nasdaq stocks just go demented sometimes, totally unrelated to the underlying stock action on L2.. nyse stocks are usually a bit more stable for it. I just don't know.. some days I think d4f is hopeless and then other days I think it is not so bad.. some clear advantages if it would work fast and consistantly. Size should not matter for one thing.. no split fills etc.. but then someone elsewhere suggested that you get auto fills mostly, but if you start to make decent gains you will find yourself being handled by a trader personally.. which slows things down.. I don't know myself but it does get wierd sometimes alright.. like requotes preventing me getting out with a gain sometimes.. usually balances out in the end tho.. and the stop order I use every time now the moment I have placed my trade.. It will have to be IB in the long run tho I suspect.. I also use qcharts feed with Erlangerquote for my data.. not too bad. Speed isssues sometimes as you know if you follow this forum.. but the best charts and analysis I have yet found.. not cheap tho either.. Neil
Neil the days u think it is ok is on low voltility days, when there is no money to be made anyway and the days it is crap is on high volatility days when there is a load of money to be made in futures, and as usual lost in spreadbetting the real joke with spreadbetting companies is that when they tried to skew their hedging to make themselves more money, as they know all their clients lose money, the spreadbetting companies managed to lose a load of money and have had to go back to low risk hedging in futures
This may well be true stevet.. no idea. However I have never spread bet.. only uses deal4free for the cfd's.. have you traded them? Not quite the same thing.. in principle it is identical to actually trading the underlying stock. When deal4free is working right it is fairly comparable.. the usual spread is 5c on most stocks.. and remember there is no commish... so that is ok compared to even IB who I mostly use. I know it is more exp than IB.. but only if the ask/bid spead is only 1c on L2. Sometimes the spread is still 5c even on a nyse stock that actually has a 10c or wider bid/ask spread. The main problem is that deal4free is erratic and I am not sure how much I would trust them on higher value trades than just a few hundred shares. Not always as you state, when high volatile moments.. what pisses me off is when I am watching stable price action on T & S and L2 and suddenly deal4free widens the spread to 50c or something mad like that!! Gives me the heebie jeebies.. usually pops back into synch shortly thereafter but whenever I have tackled them on it they play it dim.. no proper reason, except there software is crap I think. Neil
neil ok, good to hear from u and thank goodness u r not a spreadbettor cfds are fine, but i would only fire off electronic autoexec trades, and neither the d4f or even gni will give access to their api's the reason why their prices jump around is a) their hedging algorythms and in conjuction b) in that they have to change the pricing relative to their own book, until they reach eqilibrium and c) if they spot suspicious volume, they tend to widen the spreads since they have been hit a few times and are wary and now widen first and ask questions later! u have to remember as well that technology problems are real profitable for them, so if their clients accept it, they'd be nuts to improve it gni cfds, at least on uk stocks go directly into sets, so will be more reliable on pricing, dont know how they handle us stuff though - most other cfd suppliers use gni, but i suspect d4f do their own
Thanks stevet, that explains it a bit more for me.. been trying to figure how they operate and that makes sense to me. I guess it was wishful thinking but I kinda kept hoping they would work out in the end.. but there you go. I still think they are the absolute best way for a new trader to begin.. a bridge between paper trading (which is useless in my opinion) and jumping right in the deep end. I have heard people describe going straight from paper trading to trading with 1000 shares in one leap! jeez! I started with d4f last year and actually began trading one share at a time! lol Sounds like paper trading but in fact it is amazing how much you can care about one share! Anyway, into the low hundreds now and really will have to stop trying d4f and stick with IB, just hate having to keep all that cash over there in rapidly diminishing dollars.. oh well I am looking at es eminis at the moment tho.. as a change from stocks.. and might do the same trick with d4f on the s&p index.. one at a time.. to get a feel for them. They seem to follow the es fairly well.. Neil
neil trading cfds - at least with gni - is real and valid trading - i dont know about cmc's cfds - but trading s&p with a spreadbettor won't teach u anything because their electronic trading platforms for placing trades is ridiculous compared to trading eminis on globex u can get simulators for trading eminis - and since the fills on eminis are so good , the simulators are pretty accurate - dont waste time losing money on spreadbetting - its is just such a different trading medium that it will not teach u anything cmc will check every futures order by eye before sending the price back to you and then they will put u in rotation in a fast moving market behind all their other orders, if the market stops whilst u r in rotation and your order does not get to the front of the queue, and the market starts moving again, when u do get to the front u will go back in rotation and on and on... compare this to a couple of seconds to open and close an emini order if u want to - and no slippage
No stevet.. honestly.. I won't spreadbet!! LOL I just mean the cfd s&p index on d4f.. its just the same as the stock cfd's. Been watching it the last couple of days alongside the real es emini's.. it follows it pretty well. 25c tick and a 50c constant spread.. thats not too bad.. its updating fast and furious.. only practice anyway, but a 3pt stop is a $3 loss if stopped.. I am only playing! Neil ps. In case anyone is wondering why the hell I am posting rather than trading I am in a phase of just trading stocks from 5.30 until the close!
Hi stevet, I do bit of everything. Delta neutral trades had been my favorite. My latest hedge play is like this: BUY ATM(CALL/PUT) and do littlebit daytrading on the underlying to cover the cost of the options(Ofcource while doing this I sometimes miss big movements ) but at this stage my aim is to cover or partly cover the option cost. Once I feel that i cover the option cost, I relax a bit and leave the underlying on its own. if the market goes against me, my cost free option will cover me. If the market goes in favor of me, i make money on the underlying.ofcourse options then becomes worthless but who cares I already cover the cost. I totally agree with you regarding spreadbetters. The only time you can get good quotes from them if you are taking a position against the current trend as they would be adjusting their quotes according to their books. I remEmber once I had the misfortune of going long on Nikkei with D4F. Minute after I placed my trade, they reduce their quote 60 points below the market price and kept it like that until I close my position(obviously I must have been the only person at that time on their books!!!!!) good luck