Humpy, you are right about some of this..... If you are really bored with a faily easy hum-drum life then don't go West anymore go East !!!!! The amount of money sloshing about for the toughest is truly amazing. It's a whole new world of paying off officialdom, paying off the mafia and grabbbing a share of the pickings !! If you can live that long. A bit like the old West must have been like !! There is little recourse to the law if your neighbour is threatening you unless their orders from ??? says they better do something. If you hate law and order, socialism etc. etc. then Russia is just the place for you if you're tough enough ! So don't moan too much if you're a wimp the alternatives are MUCH worse .................................................................................................. Actually, you could have been talking about some of Latin America as well.....there is a lot of money sloshing around resource based countries right now.....and even in the poorer countries, small monopolies still abound.....and the local politics often decides who has jobs and who does not. But make no mistake, it can get a little raw. The US is enshrowded with legal largesse to the degree that it is just too excessive in just about every category imaginable. One can choose to be free in a raw world....or perhaps never free.....The lawyer section in the phone books just gets thicker and thicker. However, there are some countries that are very Darwinistic as Humpy has suggested. In some, you are your own police. But, when you are one of the strong ones, the rewards are quite high. The legal systems in many countries are moreless nonexistant. It amounts to creating your own freedoms. Red Ink, in another post got it right....the US has become a litigators paradise, and a working man's nightmare.... My commentaries relate to the idea that I am selfish in the sense that most other countries are in such chaos that the US is the only hope in the sense that it has the system whereby there is a chance to get it right. Once the US gets it right.....it will help other countries that will follow...... This is why it is so important that the US get it right, because if it cannot.....then many outside governments will falter even more.....I am very selfish....I want to see companies like BATS create low commission electronic stock exchanges for Asia and Europe, and the rest of the world......which commenced with Island, ARCA....you know the story......BATS is USA based.....A perfect example.......etc....etc.... However, what is true is that one can/must become more global....you can make the world yours....and not theirs....and becoming more worldly leads to a more knowledgible and perhaps fullfilling life....which trading boundaries defined by internet broadband access allows one to do..... Jim Rogers has got it right....and there is nothing stopping you from becoming another Rogers....
The first problem is getting citizenship in another country, at least if you want to have it in a real country not a random Caribbean tax haven that not everyone recognizes. It is much easier if you have money because many countries are much more likely to welcome you as a citizen if you invest money (usually at least $500k) into the local economy and create jobs. Gnome, you of all people should understand why the government would pass a law that they can, depending on the exact circumstances, tax ALL of your worldwide income (not just US sourced) for 10 years. Because they can and they are greedy; they did it to stop the ultra wealthy from just walking away from taxes but they wrote the law so it affects anyone making a reasonable living. Below is the text form the IRS website. The way I read it is that if you make more than $127k on average or have a $2M net worth and you give up your citizenship then you are automatically assumed to have done so just to avoid taxes which is against the law. Therefore, since you broke the law they will tax all of your income for the next ten years the same as they would if you had not given up your citizenship. You will be taxed the same as a US citizen living abroad, even though you are no longer a citizen. As one poster pointed out, if you plan ahead and have good (expensive) lawyers then you can get around some of this. It is not the presence of loopholes that I care about, it is the idea that the government is so blatant in restricting our freedom. "Expatriation after June 3, 2004 The American Jobs Creation Act (AJCA) of 2004 amends Section 877 of the Internal Revenue Code (IRC), which provides for an alternative tax regime for certain, expatriated individuals. Amended IRC 877 eliminates the tax avoidance criteria for imposition of the expatriation tax on certain types of income for 10 years following expatriation, and creates objective criteria to impose the tax on individuals with an average income tax liability of $127,000 for tax year 2005 (or higher amount for later years) for the 5 prior years or a net worth of $2,000,000 on the date of expatriation. In addition, it requires individuals to certify to the IRS that they have satisfied all federal tax requirements for the 5 years prior to expatriation and requires annual information reporting for each taxable year during which an individual is subject to the rules of IRC 877. Further, expatriated individuals will be subject to U.S. tax on their worldwide income for any of the 10 years following expatriation in which they are present in the U.S. for more than 30 days, or 60 days in the case of individuals working in the U.S. for an unrelated employer. Finally, even if they do not meet the monetary thresholds for imposition of the IRC 877 expatriation tax, the new law provides that individuals will continue to be treated as U.S. citizens or long-term residents for U.S. tax purposes until they have notified the Secretary of the Department of State or of Homeland Security of expatriation or termination of residency. The implementation date of this provision is retroactive and applies to expatriations occurring after June 3, 2004. The expatriation is not effective until the notification and tax satisfaction certifications are filed with the IRS and the Department of State or of Homeland Security."
Apparently the key is "present in the US"... that is, becoming an expatriot but still living and working in the US. Seems to me that if the US sent Jimmy Rogers a tax bill for 10 years (presuming of course that he's renounced citizenship, no longer works, lives, nor invests in the US), they would not be able to collect if he just said, "up yours"...
The US Gummint has overspent, overborrowed, and generally mismanaged the public purse for quite a long time... not just the Bush Adminstration and Legislature, though history may regard him/them as the worst offender. As a result, the ONLY avenue they have to "keep the circus in town", is to CONFISCATE ALL OF THE WEALTH THEY CAN FROM ANYBODY WHO HAS SOME. They plan higher taxes and money-print inflation... this will lead to reduced standard of living for all Americans and loss of asset buying power through currency debasement. The more money they prevent from leaving the US, the greater assets they have to tap... and that's the primary reason for laws which prevent Americans from leaving the US with their money. It's not just income tax they're after... it's also the "wealth tax"... buying power confiscation though inflation and currency destruction has the same overall effect, though a less obvious path.... I think THAT'S the primary reason Rogers left the US. AND THE US GUMMINT WANTS ALL OF YOURS TO STAY HERE SO THEY CAN GET IT FROM YOU!!
I don't think so. You actually cannot give up citizenship within the country. You have to leave and then notify the US embassy where you are, and then you will not be allowed to return to the US without obtaining permission like everyone else, which they will not readily provide if you are presumed to have left for tax reasons. Most countries have tax treaties with the US so you will not be able to say "up yours". I think the bottom line is that you can give up US citizenship if you can obtain it somewhere else, and either have enough money to pay a lot of lawyers to get you around the regulations, or be poor enough that the IRS doesnât care about you leaving. You have to be prepared not to be allowed back into the country though.
Gnome wrote..... The US Gummint has overspent, overborrowed, and generally mismanaged the public purse for quite a long time... not just the Bush Adminstration and Legislature, though history may regard him/them as the worst offender. As a result, the ONLY avenue they have to "keep the circus in town", is to CONFISCATE ALL OF THE WEALTH THEY CAN FROM ANYBODY WHO HAS SOME. They plan higher taxes and money-print inflation... this will lead to reduced standard of living for all Americans and loss of asset buying power through currency debasement. The more money they prevent from leaving the US, the greater assets they have to tap... and that's the primary reason for laws which prevent Americans from leaving the US with their money. It's not just income tax they're after... it's also the "wealth tax"... buying power confiscation though inflation and currency destruction has the same overall effect, though a less obvious path.... I think THAT'S the primary reason Rogers left the US. AND THE US GUMMINT WANTS ALL OF YOURS TO STAY HERE SO THEY CAN GET IT FROM YOU!! ................................................................................................. You have hit the nail on the head.....Rogers is like Templeton in that respect..... However in a corporate sense.....the VP's company Haliburton going to Dubai is doing the same thing..... By the way....it does not matter where the computer banks are so to speak.....and Dubai could be another electronic market center..... In a very short period of time......the Nasdaq....BATS....and any exchange that wants the order flow is going to be located where the least legal largesse is....... Freedom from legal largesse is a very very important matter....at least to some of us.....and here again...the Rogers of the world will always be in the minority...... The US can stew in its legal largesse incestual cesspool now dominiated by the 1% 80% rule....... And Roger's is correct about Bernanke.....or any other country that does it.... Currency debasement is no different than legal stealing from those who least deserve to be stolen from..... It is total shit like this whereby it is totally justifiable for an individual to become more worldly and protect his own.....Who the fuck has time to form a military or revolution....whereby the so called legal police will slam you down...and your efforts are for naught.....All an individual can do is become worldly....... Again, Rogers.....and many others ....he is not alone......is a very intelligent player..... ................................................................................................. Hey, do you not like the idea of a guy whose wife spends $500k per month of poppy's money on amex.....telling the country how to be frugal ? Or a guy who has a gift of gab, and changes like a camelion? Ah.....come on......don't you just love it.....????????
Unfortunately voting for none of the above does nothing. In Russia, if the "none-of-the-above" option gets over 50%, they throw out all the candidates and pick new ones - of course, that's the way it was intended to work. We all know that's just corrupt as well.
I think Russia is used to that. The whole world understands or at least believes the Russian government is corrupt... just like most countries. Unfortunately, we Americans believe that OUR Gummint is still all about... "of the people, by the people, and for the people...". Therefore the majority of us don't see or are reluctant to acknowledge our mess. I'm quite sure we'll continue to barrel down this same path, pedal to the metal, until we plunge over the cliff. Are you Russian? Live in Russia?
I'll answer that question with the following: Iâm pro gun for the sake of maintaining our freedom, as well as badly needed home protection. I am pro life, though sometimes when I listen to the shit coming out of congress, I wonder if a case might be made for some. Especially the pro choicers. Seriously, though, every one should have a chance from conception. If you cant raise a child, donât fuck. Cases early term for rape and incest, though would prefer to see adoption. Iâm against the war on drugs. It does nothing but make dope so lucrative that it provides incentive for bangers and such to hook as many as possible at any age. It provides terror funding, (as does some foreign oil proceeds). I could go on, but whats the point. Guess the murder rate in this country doesnât matter to congress. Only when it affects their desires. Remember alcohol prohibition. That was a real success, wasn't it? Yeah, right. Wonder if Obama will let offenders out of prison. He has admitted to blow and smoke. If someone wants to dope, thatâs their business. It wouldnât be big business if it was legal. (For the libertarians, Mr Barr was a big drug warrior in his day,wasn't he? Not a libertarian in that sense. I wonât vote for him.) Iâm against high taxes and unmanaged use of the taxes collected. Government theft at current levels. Poor management only aggrevates the issue. They should treat our tax dollars as if every dollar was the last they would have to spend. I believe in a strong military (did my time), and only limited regulation of free markets. I donât care if a person is gay, straight, bi, tri, black, white, yellow, or red. Live and let live. Just donât impose an agenda on me. Donât mock my beliefs, and I wonât mock yours. Here is Obamaâs voting record from the US senate. http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Barack_Obama_Abortion.htm Here is a fairly accurate sight for his beliefs on issues, which you can verify or disclaim by his voting record. http://www.ontheissues.org/Barack_Obama.htm And if you really want to dig deep: From the Il senate. http://www.ilga.gov/sitemap.asp You should have no trouble deciding which of his votes Iâm opposed to. Too many to list here. I am in 100% agreement with those who say our choice really sucks this election.