There are many profitable daytraders.. I have met many of them. But I dont believe one can make consistent money every single day or week daytrading. I also believe that the odds are extremely against you trying to make a living daytrading the Eminis. If you make $5k a month trading the eminis.. and the next 2 months you make $0 then you are not making a consistent living daytrading. My point is based on my experience no one can make a consistent living trading. --MIKE
I didn't say "a person wakes up one morning and really understands the markets" I said "This kind of trading does not learnt overnight. It takes years to develop, learn the markets and all that is involved with it. " TM Trader
Your post seems to be kind of closed minded. Maybe in thinking that it can't be done has already stopped you from being able to make consistent money intraday. I would think it would be hard to do anything if you think it can't be done. I know several people that have made over 100K a year (and 7 figures during the better years) for over 7 years now trading stocks mostly intraday. Of course this is not something everyone can do. I also know a few people who only trade emini and bonds up way more then 100K for the year trading only intraday. I don't know where you get the idea that NO one is making good money intraday trading the emini. Of course like before it is more the exception then the rule but that seems to be the rule for the trading career in general. A few make all the money and the rest either lose or do not make enough to make it worth it.
Gentlemen: Most of the time I just monitor these posts but tonight I thought I would offer a comment. I make a living trading Emini, Bonds, Currencies and Grains. I trade the Emini using outright positions intraday, and for the other markets I take positions of varying duration using options. I think that it is very difficult to trade a single market successfully. One of the problems is that you have to start with an account of sufficient size. Also, if you are talking about trading the Emini, you have to deal with the fact that it has become a very noisy market. Finally, most retail traders don't make it to the point where they have a good conceptual understanding of the markets they are trying to trade. They usually blow out the account (or quit) before they get to that point. So in my view there is an element of truth in the theme of this post. On the other hand, I want to be perfectly honest about my motivation in contributing. I want people to continue to try. I need your liquidity in the market so that I can continue to make a living. Good luck to those who stick it out and become successful. Steve
while daytrading is very difficult, a few people indeed grasp it. That said... I have met many ex-exchange memebers who couldn't day trade after leaving the floors. One philosophy that has helped me personally is to be a DAY TRADER but not a DAILY TRADER! there is a big difference. You can get hypnotized watching the markets day in day out, every minute of the day!
You make some pretty bold statements, but you don't provide us with any evidence or underlying reasons
Interesting Thread, Here are some facts from my personal experiences... I don't live in NYC nor do I have personal close trading pals that do live in NYC. However, I have a close trading pal that lives in Fort Wayne Indiana, another that live in Seattle Washington, another that lives in Flossmoor Illinois, another that lives in Quebec City Province du Quebec and another that lives Paris France. Now...when I say I personally know these traders I mean is this...one I've grew up with, another I went to college with, another I worked with at a prior job while in college and the others are via friendships developed from other friends. All the above I've had the pleasure of watching trade in person...over looking their shoulder sort'uv speak for a minimum of 2 weeks. One, we have the same tax accountant... None have ever won the lottery nor won any kind'uv prize to manipulate and say they earned via trading fulltime. None have obtained any large amount of life insurance money via the death of a relative to manipulate and say they earned via trading fulltime. None have other occupations nor have had any other occupation but trading for many many years. Except for one...all are the sole providor in their families. The exception...lives with his long term girlfriend and her income is almost as equal as his and they have 2 kids. All the above are making a living trading the Eminis and are daytraders (they are not scalpers). (I know a few others that aren't daytraders...but this discussion by me is about daytraders only) A few trade also the big contracts and Euro stuff. However...such trades are small in comparison to their Emini trades. These are traders I've personally known for a minimum of 7 years and two I've known a lot longer than that. They are successful by my standards and not via some typical materialistic standard set by people in NYC... (the last statement above means I'm annoyed by people in the markets that think that if it doesn't occur in NYC...it doesn't happen anywhere else) they don't have a fancy life style like fast cars and lots of women and 3 never heard of EliteTrader.com until I told them about it... To make a good guess...I would say their average income is about 65k per year. Note: Living in Fort Wayne Indiana making 65k a year is a lot of dough especially if your debt free and you've paid off your house 3 years ago. They make consistent profits...not every trading day is profitable...not every trading week is profitable... However...they make consistent profits and are able to support their families and their lifestyle. My point is this... You don't need to be making 100k a year to be consider a successful trader. It's a tad bit absurb for you to think real money is 100k for anybody else...maybe for you...but not for everybody else. Me personally...any trader that can support his family, pay his bills, pay his taxes, enjoy some of life's luxuries like family vacations via his trading income alone... is a successful trader and has nothing to do with some fixed dollar amount. It's just as delusional (your thinking success is measure via 100k) as newbies coming into the market thinking they'll be a successful trader within a few months after reading some in-depth strategy at a discussion forum. Also...I want to make something very clear to you. Most traders I do know...including traders I've met online... are struggling to keep their heads above water or go bust in less than a year. I simply pointed out a few exceptional traders (by my standards) I personally know out of many I know overall (including those I've met online) that are daytraders. Daytrading is just a job...that's reality... Heck...if your single...no debts...living in a nice studio apartment in Eugene Oregon making 27k per year after overhead expenses via daytrading the Eminis... your doing pretty darn good and can live a very good lifestyle there as a single person with no debts. Further, I've never met a trader...regardless to what they trade...that made millions... although you seem to know countless individuals. Wouldn't this be like me saying because I've never met those that you know that makes millions holding long term... that it can't be done and there's no such thing as being able to make consistent money long term??? Can you also clarify but what you mean by millions (plural)??? Does the lifestyle by these countless individuals you know support the fact behind the millions they make??? Hmmmm. Something you've said... I am just annoyed when I lurk these threads and I read countless posts of people trying to trade the Eminis on 1 min. charts. Some truth here because I've not met any successful trader that exclusively trades via the 1min chart. I'm not saying it can't be done...I've never met a trader. However, I know many that use the 1min chart as part of their methodology that includes higher chart intervals. Therefore, its possible your getting confused when you see someone saying they use the 1min chart along with other chart intervals. Something else that you've said... #1. NO such thing as making consistent money every single day daytrading. That is a biggest myth. This is true in some ways. However, I have never read anywhere were someone said a daytrader can make consistent money every single day... never have I've seen that statement. Therefore...its not really a myth. It's your impression or feeling about what your reading. Take some of the posts here at EliteTrader.com...although I haven't read every single thread nor every single message posts... I've never seen anyone that post their trades here...saying their making consistent money and not (never) have a single losing trading day. It's just your impression. However...I've seen traders post a win streak while starting a thread to give someone the impression they never lose to only conclude in a blow up trading day... this is more reality and not my impression. Mike...in fact...can you post a link to anywhere where a trader said the following... can make consistent money every single day or week daytrading the Eminis. Maybe you got the above statement mixed up with something like the following... can make consistent money daytrading the Eminis. I've seen many statements like the above...but not what you have implied. This bring me to a story... When I was growing up as a kid and going through those grocery check out counters with my Mom... I would see that magazine called Enquire or something like that. I remember seeing on the front cover magazine with a story about a 2 headed baby on several occassions. I thought this can't be true...there's no such thing as babies with multiple heads. I asked my mom and she told me there's no such thing as 2 headed babies. The cash register woman said the same thing and another lady in line agreed. Now I'm a lot older, wiser and a med-school dropout... I can tell you for fact...eventhough I've never met one nor met a family with one... There are 2 headed babies on earth. I am only speaking from my own experience as your speaking from your own experience. P.S. Mike...did you notice none of the Emini traders I've mentioned above that I personally know live in NYC nor work on WallStreet. However...I do know traders that live in the state of New York and I know none Emini traders that work on WallStreet. NihabaAshi
well done NihabaAshi. a few additions : - I love people who say it can't be done, they often highlights places of good opportunities in the markets. - emini is not the only futures, although when one reads ET it may seem that way. - all locals, and most market makers (and that includes proprietary mm) are succesful daytraders. we also support our families. - this is a business : consistency is measured in an arbitrary way and not always relevant. yes you want to be consistent year after year. but most business will make sure they are consistent quarter to quarter and if possible month to month (but that's not true or possible for every business). trading is not different than any other biz. so there will be tough times, recapitalization, great years, bad ones, special events and disasters etc.. - the only think I agree with the original poster : it's not right to suggest (from anyone) that it's easy. and beginners must be aware of the success rate (or lack of). the rate is very identical to any other business venture. so it's very difficult. many would like to make it. few will succeed. it's just the way it is. - trading is not one type of business, but many. so you need to select the right plan for you. daytrading is maybe not the best for all traders and it's certainly the most difficult in terms of learning curve and cost (fixed costs and variable costs).