because he gives those of us that honestly trade for a living a bad name prop traders they don't know shit about making money they just know how to get your deposit
Thanks for great insight. I for one really appreciate it. Funny, as a home gamer, amateur I figured that a shop of professional spreaders would have their statistics and spreadsheets of their products on screen. Quant / mechanical stuff where say, 65% ineficiencies that are profitable when on does "x" are patiently waited for and executed. However, after reading your posts it seems more that the guys come in on a daily basis with a a ton of experience and find opportunity each day. Not quant stuff at all. Is this at all accurate? Thanks.
What exactly is 'honestly trade for a living' ??? "They just know how to get your deposit'"...Did you have a bad experience with a prop firm?
Thanks for writing the thread. Am looking forward to anything you write. On my to-do list is finding good books on sports psychology. Some outstanding players appear to have automated their response to situations, to the point that they don't think (hard, much, at all) about what to do, and may have lost sight of its complexity. I hear a similar message in what you write. Thanks again.
The other way to look at it is to study the mathematics of trading that study the things you are not yet aware of, or things you are aware of, but now react to only in a common sense way, because psychology deals with reactions to things we are not consciously aware of, or just became aware of, but does not involve the conscious in the decision making, and is, therefore, inferior, not always reliable, and takes time to use in a productive manner. It is a long sentence with many labyrinths, but since it is already written, I will leave it as is, in order to save the time to the writer, and possibly make the mind of the reader work harder, which might possibly lead to him knowing much more than what could have been intended in the earlier sentence, an outcome the writer would not deserve credit for, but would be glad about if it were to happen.
there have always been bad elements in this business but prop firms are the lowest of the low their counterparts sell real estate on late night tv paid for advertising
>> Are you trolling? Can't tell if you're serious or not. Or maybe you're under 18 years old? Any how, you don't receive any deposit of money when you are with a prop firm. And the guys who are on top here have made millions upon millions of dollars and never needed to change careers because they love what they do. >> In order to start risking a sizable amount, most prop firms (again, it varies) require varying degrees of a deposit and track record. My firm is very, very good and allows complete 100% openness when it comes to choice of trade. I know of many others who are restrictive... aka you must always spread, and only spread certain products, and have small tight stop losses. >> This is going to vary for different firms, I guess. But definitely for all the shops I've heard of, they definitely do not have a whole host of statistics on binary in/out trading given certain assumptions. >> Everyone comes in with an opportunity each day. Every day is a series of events that build your practice schedule and experience. You don't need to look at historical 1-year patterns in order to be successful. What you do is just trade long enough to go through a cycle of good/bad periods suited to your style. Clean example: {{For a 12-month period, I only knew how to trade one spread}} - When this got pretty directional and one way, I would suffer and just make $0 for the month guaranteed. - I would hope it restores pretty quickly. I found it hard to just completely change my paradigm of thinking to execute this spread and always make money. {{For the next 6-months on-top, I learned another baby spread}} - As it turned out, some times I would make 20-30% of my total average day from this new baby spread - Over time, as my primary bread/butter spread became a little more dangerous if you stepped in too much, I would play around with this baby equity spread and found consistency in that So for a full 1.5 years I only knew 1-bread-and-butter strategy coupled with 1 other spread. Now, I would say I'm up to 4-5 (some relate to each other in different ways). And I can trade outrights if its quiet enough and spreads are tight. >> Imagine the guys who have 10+ years experience. They might not diversify themselves into so many products but they would be so dynamic that they know how to change their execution style to probably profit from it. Everyone's got their own method to madness but it's definitely as you described it... do your 12-hours a day, journalise, discuss, analyze, ask questions... don't micro-manage your trades but try to internalize your ideas and 'approach'. >> That's a step towards achieving confidence in trading markets without thousands of series of data just to back yourself up over a historical period.
otherwise, like I said I know a little old lady that can make a million dollars a year buying nothing but T Bills so I'm not impressed with 3 guys that can do it at a prop firm The difference being My little old lady can do it year after year
>> I've read a few psychology books. What they say is true, about the automation part. This is no secret though. It comes after you do thousands of hours. The best time to start is now. I can't begin to tell you how much people regret not starting as soon as they had the chance too. When 2-3 years go by, exponential growth would be seen in colleagues/friends they knew in terms of their trading results, and they would be stagnant. >> The 1980's consisted of the highest amount of unethical trading and 'rates for mates' type of deals in the last 30 years. >> The 1980's was not HONEST trading. The 1980's was all about.. whoever was 'in' with a dealer or broker, would be given nice easy fills on the floor as a consolation gift every once in a while when a big order comes in. >> It was all about your friends and who you knew. People would survive on the floor for longer than they do electronically because of the clear unfair advantage people would gain. >> I know a VERY big old-school broker who used to operate on the floor. He would tell me stories of people licking their lips when a big 400-lot order would come through and only his best 8 mates would get the 50-lot split amongst them and then quickly go to market and get rid of it for some profit. >> Also, in the 1980's we had a primitive style of trading. It was much more scalpy, the 'scalps' back then were done within a few seconds. 15-seconds to a minute was a scalp. Of course you would get people caught for 1 hour or a few hours because they never wanted to get out, but that even happens today. >> In short, electronic trading boomed the game. Now, you don't need to know inside-mates or a top notch broker in order to make money. It helps, sure, but you don't need it. Also, with the expansion of markets, especially futures, it lessens the chance for random blips, excessive stop-outs, and false volume bots compounding on top of each other. Makes it more efficient.