Dan, candledude, what exactly IS an ego? do everyone have one? do I have one? how would I identify it?? fact is, there's really no such thing as an "ego"... it's just another bit of unnecessary Freudian pyschobabble fluff. just substitue the word "mind" or "brain" for ego.... that way we can take a more "scientific" (not strictly scientific) approach to problem solving.. Daniele I don't really know exactly how to take the above statement, you sound almost as if you are saying that since you cannot put your finger on it, than it can't exist Of course the word is a label for something that transcends physical matter. Put your finger on "love" or "soul". Yes you are right Dan I can't very well take my ego out, put it on the table and poke it with a finger. BUT what is the point Dan??? Do I feel everyone has an ego??? Yes. Do you have one??? YES How would I identify it??? hmmmmmmm, maybe I start by relating it directly to the game of trading, since this is a trading forum... Have you ever had a string of winners that caused a sensation of complacency or worst yet euphoria??? You start to get a little cocky or overconfident... start pressing a little harder... maybe risking more than you usually do on a trade... maybe blow a stop or two... Now on a rational level we know that every edge or system applied to the market will have a random distribution of wins and losses on a micro-level, but what exactly IS it that causes us to indulge these nasty emotions??? Ever blow a stop Dan??? Play moves right by your stop and yet you freeze and do nothing... On a rational level we know that we will have losses, we are traders and that is the game right... yet sometimes for some reason we just can't seem to accept a loss... we start to indulge hope, as if the market owes us something or is here to accomodate us... Did you ever get in a play in one direction, market does not accomodate it but sets up in the opposite direction instead... You close the play but simply can't see the other side... In hindsight you know that it was an ecellent set-up in the opposite direction and that the play should have been spun, yet while the play is setting up on "the hard right edge" we can't see it... Ever indulge in revenge trading??? Down on a day, had some bad breaks due not to anything you did, but maybe just chance... Now on a rational level we know there will be days like this, but that something inside of us compels us to try and trade out of it... you start to have what I like to call "cognitive illusions", seeing set-ups that are simply not there... Ever cut a winner too short Dan... You get into a position and it starts to move in your favor and you know on a rational level that you must hold on and ride it for what its worth, yet that something inside of us, spawns that nasty emotion fear, and suddenly we get so attached to the position and to the fear of it snapping back and taking away your gains that you go and do what you know you shouldn't and grab the gain prematurely... After the play you sit back and can see more clearly now,because that thing is no longer attached to the play and you see it go another 3 or 4 R's in your favor... Bro give it a name! Freud and Jung called it ego... Ancient sages called it the "I" sense, what ever... The thing called ego is indeed spawned from the mind, and if you want to call it brain or mind, call it that... A label is nothing more than just that, start to call the little nasty shit publias, it is still going to perpetuate the same errors over and over and over again... these are just some that came right off the top of my head Dan, but I am sure that you and all the rest of the traders on this board have at one time or another engaged in at lest one of the examples I posed above... You know the funny about your questions and the statement youmade above is that it was soooo on point with the way these sages felt that you could not even understand... they all felt that the existance of an ego was simply an illusion and that it was NOT there true nature! That is what the Tao Te Ching is all about, what The Bhagavad Gita was all about, and what the teachings of buhdism is all about... The irony in this entire discussion is so thick that one who understands these teachings has no choice but to sit back and laugh! If you understood or at least picked up a copy of one of these books and read it before you started passing off judgments about them you would never have asked the questions you did... PEACE and good trading my friend, Publias
First off bro I really did not mean to mispell your name Secondly regarding "responsibility" thing... It is a play on words Dan... The whole basis of the teachings are for one to be able to act without that thing called "I"... Therefore when they say "he acts yet he does not act" it is a play on words... The "I" does not act, yet the action gets done... As for the Einstein quote I must admit that I was shocked by it myself, and after reading it I went and ran a search on google and found it all over the place... I don't have the source though, but just type in einstein and Gita and you will see the quotes... Peace and good trading Dan, Publias
There is often confusion between the concept of ego as self aggrandizement and the more intrinsic nature of ego that is our perception of not only self worth, but self preservation. We know that to love without ego is to love unconditionally. In such a state there cannot by definition exist unrequited love. If you love someone unconditionally would you pick a fight every time she wanted to do something that you didn't? Of course not. Since you love without ego, your will is suspended. In the market we are rarely without ego or will. When she treats us well our negative self worth thinks it's only a matter of time before she realizes that we're dorks and that she can do better. When she is treating us meanly we seek positive reenforcement i.e. if I buy her gifts and hang out in front of her house all night she'll see what a great, dedicated Casanova I am. Both these displays of ego prevent us from attainment. We leave the very trades that love us, we ardently pursue the setups that just aren't there. There is a bit of Groucho Marx in every trader. Unfortunately the conscious voice is the one we most respond to. It is opinionated, bitchy, egotistical and rarely right. It will always lead you astray. Our subconsciousness is the state of reason. It speaks seldom, often greater in deeds than in words. It is the substance of our true being. It is ALWAYS right yet seldom heeded by the untrusting. "The mind of a crowd of men is like a single woman's mind. If you have observed her a long time, you begin to see little tricks, little nervous movements of the hands when she is being false." Edward C. Johnson 2nd - Founder, Fidelity Capital Management
Im sorry but what an arrogant assumption... Let me make this very clear, I am not taoist, buhdist, christian, hindu... I DO NOT subscribe to any "cults"... AND I do not look to any "gurus"... I embrace much wisdom from the eastern and the western world alike... Most importantly stu I am not under the illusion that I nor any body else for that matter holds any Absolute truths, at least not on an intellectual level... I embrace many great thinkers and sages, but ultimately the wisdom found within are comparable to legs on a snake, in the end useless; for my faith and inner truth goes far beyond the scope of the mind and words! I cannot even fathom how your feeble mind was able to induce that I am deluding myself into thinking I have found the "secrets" to our existance through The Gita because I quoted a few passages onto this thread??? Go back and read the passage (Yoga in Action) and I will attempt to explain how I directly apply it to the game of trading if you would like, but dont come on here to simply just pass your judgements around on how I am fooling myself!!! I have close to a 1000 books on my shelves, everyone from Shakespere to Carl Gusatv Jung to Poe to Lao Tzu to Einstein to Emerson to Hemingway to Dante to Machievelli to Popper to Sun Tzu.... I embrace all of them and yet I am attached to none of the wisdom that I have found within the writings of these brilliant minds... Publias-----> "The infant" by the way, you are more than welcome to continue to post here but do not make the assumption that you somehow know me or what I am about and then pass judgement on me PEACE
Publias is right Stu. Only I really "know" him. And I assure you he really does have 1000 books on his shelf. But what he fails to mention is the other 990 are Dr. Seuss and Winny the Pooh. (and obviously some coloring books....how do you think he developed his talent?) But nonetheless, he is not to be taken lightly. Peace, Love, Rock and Roll, Harmony, and Beauty, RS7
Actually one of my favorate books of late and one that I keep going back to over the last few months is indeed a Pooh book... I kid you not and Marketsurfer can attest to this as I have recently recommended the book to him Man I went and watched the X-games today RS7!!! Talk about a comlete and utter lack of fear... You could just look into their eyes and know they were in the "zone"... BTW about the book thin... It was not my intention of coming across like some intellectual superior I was just trying to make a point and besides I never counted but I am sure it is more in the 750 level and 1/2 have not been read... PEACE and harmony my friend, Publias
Hey, I was just teasing....I know you are well read! The X-Games...where is that? I ever tell you I skied in hot-dog contests? Of course it wasn't anything as radical as todays freestyle...this was in the ancient days of the sport. But it was a rush!!!!!! RS
It was held in philly for 2nd straight year... Motorcross, BMX, and the skating... Some great ish all around! hahahah what is a hotdog contest??? I skied once and almost broke my back and have yet to go back at it!
Jim Morrison used to amaze his friends when he was a teen in Virginia. He would ask pick a book, any book, out of his parents vast library, and when the quizzer would randomly read a passage, the Lizard King would readily identify the book and author.