THE Super Ultra Wealthy Man can see the future, he sees horror ahead

Eurokopek · Jul 7, 2014

jem said:
I made a typo above re percentages. but the percentages are approximations but the point is that the very wealthy and cronies are already set up...
their money can be protected from taxation for a few reasons..

Frankly although I knew some of the kids of the some of the famous cronies we spoke of on this board as this kid in greenwich... I know longer no them as I moved to San Diego.
So I have no idea what percent of the cronies lose their money after 3 or 4 generations.

But... we don't really need to know.

the point is there are those who can insulate themselves from most or all of the impacts of massive inflation and progressive taxes coupled with a death tax...
and 99% or more who cant...

So to me its absurd for chief spokes models for the cronies... buffet the pimco guys to be saying or suggesting or even being part of the idea we can fix income inequality by taxing the 99%.
More...

You realize the HNWI in the US have < 15t of investable wealth spread across 6m households? You can tax em 100%, it's still not gonna solve any problems. This number is not really meaningful in context of GDP (even though we are comparing stock with flow)

kut2k2 · Jul 7, 2014

Scataphagos said:
1. I don't care what the CEO makes.... or what his "multiple salary vs. the lowliest emplyee" is. America is (was?) a capitalist economy... a MERITOCRACY!
More...

This is a load of horseshit. America has never been a meritocracy. We were headed there at one time but we've been backsliding ever since Reagan. The C student with rich parents has always had far more opportunities than the A student with poor parents. Race has always mattered in far too many places and far too many ways, and so has gender. This notion that America is a level playing field and we all can 'make it' if we only apply ourselves is a crock for most people. The only people pushing this meritocracy crap are those invested in the status quo. More and more Americans who are losing through no fault of their own are recognizing this 'meritocracy' for the fairytale it is.

Eurokopek · Jul 7, 2014

jem said:
There are those whose families are already in the protected club and those who make it in every year.... they have the infrastructure and the wealth in place to protect themselves from the ravages of systematic inflation coupled with large taxation and death taxes. (its a pretty small group and they own a pretty massive amount of the assets in america and the word... as well as the politicians.) there have been interesting articles on the tax avoidance tactics of the super wealthy... you can google if you are not a familiar... but I am sure you are.)

Then there is the 99.__ % who don't have the advisor infrastructure and the money to set it the tax avoidance structures.

(to your point some barely make it into the club and some fall out every year and therefore I am sure you understand the ones just barely in need need better advisors or even luck to stay in past 3 generations. )

So to me its absurd for chief spokes models for the cronies... buffet the pimco guys to be saying or suggesting or even being part of the idea we can fix income inequality by taxing the 99%.
I am not calling for a wealth tax on the .02%, I call for an elimination of income and death taxes for everyone... . but the sobs with the control of the PR machine might want to back off on this inequality talk. Its crazy and will likely result in a flip the script scenario. I sense a really large part of america about to hit the reset button on the cronies... all they will need is one good leader.
More...

I so believe you. Every 4th family office conference has a family officer bringing up issue of family governance cus in more than two thirds of cases the family loses the wealth in third generation. I'm sure Vanderbilt family had all the means to set up the trusts, yet they pissed their money away and a few years ago had to shut down their FoHF (I suspect not enough assets left).

jem · Jul 7, 2014

note.. my posts were erratic. I am not sure what happened but I sort of double posted... I was in the middle of writing here, got a phone call, came back and was timed out.. so I then wrote something new.

apparently the first post worked... not sure.. as I had other calls.

----

from my perspective you keep focusing on the wrong thing.
I don't care what the exact numbers are... or who is in the club.
and note... I would like to get in the club myself... I have nothing against the super wealthy. I like them and when I knew them I got along with them quite well.

What I take offense too... is the cronies and the IMF and FED types coming out and supporting Obama and the Dems idea that idea that income inequality can be fixed by taxing the the 99__% who don't have the wealth that causes the inequality.

Whether the number is .o2 or 1% or .005% does not matter to me.
For me... the income tax structure is what causes the inequality.
there should not be an income tax or a death tax.

So... my first point would be to tax noone.

However, if the super wealthy at the IMF the FED, Buffet and Pimco... want to push the inequality idea... then the real way to balance it out would be to eliminate taxes on the 99.___% and progressively tax the hell out of the .02%... and we can start by making Buffet pay all the taxes the IRS says his companies owes personally. Next we can tax the crap out of all the profits Pimco made while front running the fed bond purchases... and we can start with el arian and Gross personally... next we can go after any other super wealth person who advocates for income taxes on the 99%.

Martinghoul said:
Right, so let me concentrate on just the bit that's relevant to my specific question. You're saying that the ultra wealthy are able to avoid death/inheritance taxes, since they can use trusts and foreign entities, whereas the just wealthy cannot? Now let me ask you a similar question to what I asked Mav... If you could prevent all these loopholes from being used and could actually apply death/inheritance taxes equally to the ultra wealthy, would that help to reduce inequality?
More...

volpunter · Jul 7, 2014

wow, how well said and how concisely put, +1

kut2k2 said:
This is a load of horseshit. America has never been a meritocracy. We were headed there at one time but we've been backsliding ever since Reagan. The C student with rich parents has always had far more opportunities than the A student with poor parents. Race has always mattered in far too many places and far too many ways, and so has gender. This notion that America is a level playing field and we all can 'make it' if we only apply ourselves is a crock for most people. The only people pushing this meritocracy crap are those invested in the status quo. More and more Americans who are losing through no fault of their own are recognizing this 'meritocracy' for the fairytale it is.
More...

volpunter · Jul 7, 2014

so then where is the money coming from to fend yourself off the invading Chinese, who fixes your streets, who makes sure some thugs from the other end of town will not invade your house and rape your family, who will remove your garbage, and who will school the kids of those families that cannot pay for the same private school you send your kids to? See, you could setup total capitalism and a complete meritocracy where everyone looks after him/herself but I am pretty sure its not gonna be pretty, it will most certainly make your life and the life of any ultra high net worth individual a lot worse than it is now, and let's not even speak about the change in life quality for those below average income/wealth...

jem said:
note.. my posts were erratic. I am not sure what happened but I sort of double posted... I was in the middle of writing here, got a phone call, came back and was timed out.. so I then wrote something new.

apparently the first post worked... not sure.. as I had other calls.

----

from my perspective you keep focusing on the wrong thing.
I don't care what the exact numbers are... or who is in the club.
and note... I would like to get in the club myself... I have nothing against the super wealthy. I like them and when I knew them I got along with them quite well.

What I take offense too... is the cronies and the IMF and FED types coming out and supporting Obama and the Dems idea that idea that income inequality can be fixed by taxing the the 99__% who don't have the wealth that causes the inequality.

Whether the number is .o2 or 1% or .005% does not matter to me.
For me... the income tax structure is what causes the inequality.
there should not be an income tax or a death tax.

So... my first point would be to tax noone.

However, if the super wealthy at the IMF the FED, Buffet and Pimco... want to push the inequality idea... then the real way to balance it out would be to eliminate taxes on the 99.___% and progressively tax the hell out of the .02%... and we can start by making Buffet pay all the taxes the IRS says his companies owes personally. Next we can tax the crap out of all the profits Pimco made while front running the fed bond purchases... and we can start with el arian and Gross personally... next we can go after any other super wealth person who advocates for income taxes on the 99%.
More...

kinggyppo · Jul 7, 2014

Maverick74 said:
You still are not getting it. That is my point, there is no "additional dollar" The rich leverage their net worth through debt. In other words, they convert income into debt to create leverage of existing assets. So there is no income, only an asset. I know there is hard to understand and maybe I'm being too big of a dick here patronizing you for it as honestly most Americans don't understand this. But debt in the financial world IS an asset and that asset has different income generating qualities then equity. The top 1% earn practically ZERO income so there is no marginal income to tax. You see here is what you need to get your head around. Income, as you understand it, only has value to those who need cash flow in the present to meet expenses. If you don't need that cash flow, there is absolutely ZERO benefit to creating a cash flow. So any cash flow that does exist is converted into debt wiping out the short term taxable cashflow. Why do you think rich people own 15 properties all over the world. Most of them will never step foot in those homes, they bought the homes to create a debt or obligation. The debt in this case IS an asset and the interest on that debt is tax deductible against any short term cash flows.

I know this is confusing but this is why people get paid bucks to learn and understand the math and optimize assets to create maximum value.
More...

people pay alot of money for this type of information, you are a wise man senior Maverick...

smallStops · Jul 7, 2014

You can learn all these techniques for free by volunteering in agencies like Transparency International.

xelite777 · Jul 7, 2014

Ucan'tEatBonds said:
Martinghoul and Maverick and Pizoe and maybe 3 others, are most likely part of the Government Internet Posting program. If you never heard of it, that's because Mainstream media doesn't report it.

Every large chat and board website has government paid posters, whose job is to toe the party line, be it for FED, or government, or protecting the Status Quo
More...

Outstanding.

luisHK · Jul 7, 2014

Below is a link discussing ashkenazi IQ, there's plenty more information available on the net about IQ and races/geographical location of people.
Ashkenazi who migrated to the US and UK seem to live in a world of their own, IQ wise as group.
Other jews are not remarkable in that respect, and actually fall below east asians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_intelligence