"The Strategy": a theory of market manipulation by big funds (Knuteson, 2018)

Discussion in 'Trading' started by d0rian, Dec 9, 2019.

  1. slvrrisc

    slvrrisc

    Taking an uninformed guess at this big money market "manipulation" theory of the author. Maybe the author is referring to index futures purportedly making their biggest range moves during the overnight and hours outside of the (nyse) regular session hours, where futures also often move plenty a few hours (london session) before the regular session open. Or alternately, it could be that these big funds are just catching on after these overnight positive gaps and extending the move riding the momentum each day, then selling off at the close but the overall print ends up still another postive bar where there is still interest by the smaller players overnight and at the next open. Until it reaches a s/r level or whatever the point the big funds deem is a reversal point, then dump for the rest of the smaller players to be bag holders as the market retraces and sells off for the next sessions while the "manipulators" wait for their next opportunities. ( I wouldn't be inclined to take the author seriously either, as I think it's likely he's not a successful retail trader himself and is using his 'platform' to voice out his concocted explanatory theories about "manipulators" he imagines are making bank in this way. )
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2019
    #21     Dec 10, 2019
  2. d08

    d08

    My unfounded theory is that greed declines in the afternoon and fear rises, the "anything can happen overnight" concept. When the next day arrives without armageddon, they re-enter the old positions. It's possible the daytraders do this for leverage and margin cost reasons as well.
     
    #22     Dec 10, 2019
    bone and nooby_mcnoob like this.
  3. bh_prop

    bh_prop

    This is exactly why buying the close and selling the open is so much more profitable than the reverse - the reverse being what the author is wrongly suggesting
     
    #23     Dec 10, 2019
  4. Overnight

    Overnight

    Have you tried it with any success? Buying the close and selling the open?
     
    #24     Dec 10, 2019
  5. Academics do it all the time. At least in their wildest dreams.
     
    #25     Dec 10, 2019
  6. Overnight

    Overnight

    Exactly. Nobody does it, because it is fake and does not work. Else everyone would be doing it with real monies.
     
    #26     Dec 10, 2019
  7. bone

    bone

    Knuteson is NOT arguing that his strategy is optimum.

    His argument has merit to a very limited extent - but it’s incomplete. Written like a true short timer analyst with a very incomplete resume in the markets.

    Since 2008, buying and holding clearly outperforms buying and selling during the same trading session.
     
    #27     Dec 10, 2019
    comagnum likes this.
  8. ironchef

    ironchef

    Why don't you backtest your statement with SPY and see how profitable.

    I did. Backtested SPY from 1993 to 2019: Bought at close price and sold at next morning's open price. Not that profitable especially not as good as buy and hold SPY from 1993-2019, even without subtracting the cost of bid/ask and commissions.
     
    #28     Dec 10, 2019
  9. d0rian

    d0rian

    ?

    This phenomenon -- overnight returns substantially outpacing those from regular market-hours -- has been well-documented by plenty of studies (e.g. 1, 2) across a wide cross-section of developed nations' equity markets, even if the reasons for it aren't all that well understood. There's nothing "fake" about it, nor is it some novel observation Knuteson's making; he's just proposing a theory to explain the well-established pattern...the theory apparently being that it's due to large funds engaging in quasi-manipulative (debatable) practices, resulting in the day-vs-overnight splits.
     
    #29     Dec 11, 2019
    Onra likes this.
  10. Whoever has access to the right data (not relying on bid/ask & ohlc data), understands fully the auction process, and has a clear view on order types and exchange rules (i.e a SKILLED PROFESSIONAL) knows what is real and what is not. All these studies should be classified vertically, to say the least.
     
    #30     Dec 11, 2019