I don't see the trend you are refering to on 7-31, 8-05 and 8-13. Could you post a chart of that? I know you already said you could be wrong. I'm new at this and trying to get up to speed on this thread before labor day. Already put in a couple of all nighters. Just want to make sure I'm not missing something.
I've been reading this journal, and a slew of affiliated threads, both on ET here and on other sites where Jack has posted in prior years...and a few questions occurred to me to ask the assembled masses: 1) Obviously there are a number of people who are taking this method seriously and trying to learn it (myself included so far anyway), and yet, I see no one, after several months, who can claim to even be knocking down 1/5th the daily range (15.00 pts or so ATR so far this year give or take, so 3 pts daily), let alone the 2 to 3X daily range that is claimed as an expert level. Why is it that no one has suggested that 5 or 10 or 15 "followers" for lack of a better term, arrange to set up a mIRC room and work on this stuff in Real Time, together, each day for a month, and see what happens. After the fact postings will always be after the fact...live real time discussions on such topics as: is this a vdu area? what channel are we in? what fractal are we agreeing this should be viewed on? are we CCCing? are we reversing here? Couldn't that only serve to at least bring everyone some new ideas ? And just maybe, a tiny bit more cohesive success? 2) If Jack is even getting 1.5 the ATR on average, on say 20 lots per trade, which is still pretty medium (or small even) sized for a true big player, then he'd be bringing in 20k a day or more, 100k week, etc...surely enough to maybe pay someone to host a realtime setup to teach some of this, type his thoughts, etc. I understand the pacing everyone, teaching, lecturing...until such a point that they can get in the "groove", and I get the idea that we all have to put in the work to make our understanding complete and gel it in our minds, but surely even 1 or 2 days of live example couldnt hurt to solidfy some of this for many readers, and it would be nice to see anyone make the daily range or better for a few days consistently just to firm up the belief in the system. Just seems that there are a lot of claims, a lot of acronyms and lingo, a lot of subjectivity, and a whole lot of posts...but not one person who has even "tripled" their initial capital that I know of anyway. (Dawg, oddiduro, vorzo, if you guys are knocking down hundreds a day on mulitple lots and tripling and all that, then excuse my ignorance) And surely no one who is letting us know that they are beginning to bank some factor of the daily range each day. I'll also note that I realize this is summer...its slow out there...its no longer 1998 or 99, or even the volatile summer of 02 we had last year, so the rockets are more likely to fail than fly, etc etc. But the daily range is remaining 8 to 15 pts, and I'm not seeing anyone who is going to be anywhere near 3X that range per day by Labor Day, least not in this decade, at this rate. Maybe another 230+ pages need to go by...any thoughts from others on this?
For more information about daytrading the eminis go here.. we are discussing the topic of daytrading the eminis for a living... http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?threadid=21152 --MIKE
Well, I don't make 3 points every day, because I don't trade every day, but if you study the method you will see that there are optimal points in the market. The rocket happens. If it takes off, then use the monitoring methods to stay in the trend..... The rocket fails, then reverse...the P, V relation works with you here. If you want to wash, prorate the volume on the 1 min. I myself don't do this, I just take the loss and reverse if the rocket fails, the chances are better than even that you will still make a little bit, even on these restricted ranges. Dawg and Vorzo have posted plenty of trades to demonstrate the method. It really is KISS, and the holy grail does not exist.
Some participants of this thread my find it useful to take a few moments to look at the "Stop the crap" thread of the "Trading" board. I am wondering whether "The Stochastic Indicator" magnum-thread with its 250+ pages containing lines like: [Q] More golden oldie from jack As Jack is trying take us to higher level of trading, ... [UQ] could not qualify as a model crap heap?
I think the moderator was clear as to what "crap" is. I also think that you were too lazy to read this thread, and as such, you have made the typical lazy man's error of making judgements on an incomplete information base.
Dear oddiduro, I admire your courage with which you want to stick to the bitter end and I hope it helped you to make some money. As for myself, I admit that I gave up longtime ago to find any "thread" in this "stochastic" junkyard. What you call "lazy" is the simple fact that some people think they better invest their time in other things than in utter confusion. Perhaps the contents of the present "Stochastic Indicator" thread could have been spread out over a number of disparate threads meaningful to different groups. Right now I fail to see what most of this stuff has to do with the "Stochastic Indicator".
I think this is a really good idea. I'm sure it could help many like myself during the learning curve (at least a little). There is nothing like having immediate questions answered immediately by those with more experience or by having a commune of minds working together to solve the problem.
It is the nature of the markets to teach us in hindsight - we learn from mistakes AFTER we make them. What you're proposing is something akin to a trading room. Trading rooms fail because people don't think for themselves, instead they rely on moderator calls, and thus never learn. Moderators themselves have a hard time staying profitable due to the distraction and responsibility of running the room. I'm all about sharing but I wouldn't do it in a live chat room - I consider it too distracting. Besides, a real-time second opinion is the last thing you need in this game where second-guessing is your worst enemy. A few people here including Jack that are sometimes posting during mkt hours and I find that useful. Oddi is right: if you take the time to understand the method you will learn MUCH more than you ever could from a chat room. Regarding multiples of daily range, I don't focus on achieving this or that number of multiples, but instead on understanding and applying the method. According to Jack, beginners are supposed to knock down 1x daily range: I believe dawg is living proof of that. Cheers, vorzo
vorzo, I agree with what you say about realtme trading rooms in general, in that most people just want to be handed calls and that's all. But, that really isn't what he was suggesting. I think the following is the key phrase...