It is NOT the first time that Chinese lends some money to some poor country and moves back tons of raw materials. They are not following your stupid plan. Of course, Chinese does not buy PBR common stocks as there is chance to lose money. They lend it to Brazil and have the right to ask it back and at the same time, moves the oil to China. It is their usual tactics! Nothing new! The Brazilian government does not even have money to develop the new oil field and asks the Chinese for help. Your stupid mind asks the Brazilian government to nationalize PBR. Where does the money come from? You are the communist of communists! I do not understand why in today's modern world, why is it so important to point out my great great great grand father is so and so big and important? Who care? I measure you by how you think and how you argue.
. Tom Lloyds: It is NOT the first time that Chinese lends some money to some poor country and moves back tons of raw materials. They are not following your stupid plan. Of course, Chinese does not buy PBR common stocks as there is chance to lose money. They lend it to Brazil and have the right to ask it back and at the same time, moves the oil to China. It is their usual tactics! Nothing new! ***** May 23, 2009 SouthAmerica: Reply to Tom Lloyds Your comments are continuing to show your lack of intelligence to grasp the essence of the information that you read on the articles about China investing $200 billion dollars in Brazil and the article about Petrobras and the comments that you posted on Brazzil magazine following these 2 articles. It does not matter how many times I explain in detail to you the essence of these articles â you are not smart enough to understand the subject. My article suggested that the Chinese government invest long-term money with the Brazilian government in exchange for guaranteed future supplies of commodities including food supplies, oil, other raw materials, and so on⦠You said: âThey lend it to Brazil and have the right to ask it back and at the same time, moves the oil to China. It is their usual tactics! Nothing new!â This comment shows once more your lack of intellect to grasp the real substance behind the information that you are reading and you are also completely clueless about the basic facts related to this particular deal between China and Brazil. You donât even understand and you donât have the capability to grasp the unique set of circumstances involving this particular investment transaction between China and Brazil at this time of massive financial crisis around the world. ***** Tom Lloyds: The Brazilian government does not even have money to develop the new oil field and asks the Chinese for help. Your stupid mind asks the Brazilian government to nationalize PBR. Where does the money come from? You are the communist of communists! ***** SouthAmerica: We already beat to death the subject of Petrobras nationalization on the comments section of Brazzil magazine following the 2 articles about China investing in Brazil and the article about Petrobras. By the way, regarding my suggestion of the complete oil nationalization in Brazil of Petrobras the oil company - are you implying that oil nationalization is a subject that would make me a communist based on your first-hand knowledge of other oil nationalizations on other communist countries such as in Mexico, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE, Iran, Bahrain, Norway, and so onâ¦? Your comments show that you donât have a clue about the massive scope and size of the new oil finds of Petrobras in Brazil, also the location of all these new oil fields â and finally the risks involved regarding the development of this project and the huge amounts of money that will be required to develop these new gigantic oil fields. ***** Tom Lloyds: I do not understand why in today's modern world, why is it so important to point out my great great great grand father is so and so big and important? Who care? I measure you by how you think and how you argue. ***** SouthAmerica: This simple concept is probably foreign to you since you are such a simple minded person â but in many places around the world networking with influential groups of people (the influential people who you know) and other family relationships are very important in the process of doing business and it can open many doors that otherwise would be closed to people not connected to these closed networks. (Family relationships such as important politicians, bankers, and business people who are members of your family.) You asked me who cares? You seem to care a lot since you whined like a baby on the Brazzil magazine comments section when last fall you and your friends lost your shirt on your investments in Petrobras stock, and you were placing the blame for Petrobras stock sudden decline late last year on my familyâs influence in Brazil. Your comments were so Pathetic that is not even funny. You are a very poor loser in every way, and you donât even know when you got your ass kicked and you keep coming back for more. .
. October 29, 2009 SouthAmerica: Another piece of my economic development plan is being implemented in Brazil. ***** âBrazil Government Looks At Mixed Solution For Broadband Plan Reportâ By Alastair Stewart Dow Jones Newswires October 28, 2009 SAO PAULO -(Dow Jones)- Brazil's government has adapted a plan to spread broadband Internet access across the continent-sized country to make it a joint public- and private-sector affair, according to unnamed government sources, reported local daily O Estado de S. Paulo Wednesday. In the latest project to expand broadband access from the current 18 million level to 90 million by 2014, gone are plans to set up a wholly public-sector network based on the infrastructure of government-owned companies such as Petroleo Brasileiro SA (PBR), or Petrobras, Centrais Eletricas Brasileiras SA (EBR), or Eletrobras, and Eletronet. Instead, the networks of these companies will be used as a backbone and distribution in the regions will be the responsibility of existing privately owned broadband operators, said the report. Communications Ministry officials are due to present proposals to President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva by Nov. 10. Local broadband operators, including Spain's Telefonica S.A. (TEF) and Net Servicos de Comunicacao SA (NETC), were swift to mount a lobby after the government initially proposed the creation of a mirror broadband network to their existing operations. While the proposal currently being considered does include some duplication of networks, the question of integration with private networks appears to have been better addressed. http://news.morningstar.com/newsnet...J/200910280910DOWJONESDJONLINE000579_univ.xml .
I too think the dollar will lose most of its current purchasing power before China collects much of the oil, etc.. China has promised 10billion dollars as a loan to be repaid by 200,000 barrels of oil / day for 20 years, as I recall. This is but a small part of China's wise efforts to both (1)assure supplies on needed natural resources AND (2) convert some of its paper promises from the US treasury into real assets. (i.e. dump dollars on others, like Brazil, while they still have value) Recently China made ~50 billion dollar deal with Australia for development of natural gas (LNG) from off shore island. In the last year there have been many larger deals with others than the 10 billion dollar for oil deal with Brazil. As the (2) reason I stated is to dump dollars on others for real assets there is no way China would agree to upward adjustment instead of the fixed number of dollars in the contracts. If you are suggesting that, you are not being realistic. IMHO, it is not good for Brazil to take 10 billion dollars for 20 years of oil shipped to China. Why should Brazil take "confetti" off China's hands? Let China lend Yuan to Brazil. Unlike the dollar, that is a currency sure to increase in value, which now can be used to pay for imports from China (Brazil's # 1 trading partner now) and in a few year also be used internationally (be convertible) too. You should not be encouraging Brazil to accept the declining value "confetti" for Brazil's real assets (natural wealth) in long term contracts. OMG! You seem proud of that - the high level of government corruption that enriches Brazil's politicians! Why not use your influence and articles etc. to try to reduce the extreme corruption in Brazil's government? At least two new scandals appear in São Paulo newspaper every month. Brazil should be much richer than it is but much too much of the taxes people pay goes to making politicians rich! Brazil has taxes like Sweden and public services like Nigeria (as it has Nigerian level of corruption, and has had for 200 years.) Not so if China dumps declining value dollars on Brazil. Let them send Yuan. I.e. the future payments for Brazil's natural resources exported to China under long term contracts (often 20 to 30 years) should be a fixed amount of Yuan, not dollars. BTW you were also wrong (in another thread) about the effect of Brazil's new 2% IOF. I was correct that it would mainly slow the hot, short term FDI of the "carry trade" and not much effect the longer term desirable investment in Brazil. Page B6 of today's Folha de S. Paulo states (translating into English): The entrance of dollar into Brazil FELL 73% in the first week the 2% IOF has been in effect. As I explained carry trade investments now pay a 4% tax trying to turn a quick profit by borrowing in US and depositing in Brazil's high real interest rate economy. That 4% is the same as adding 4% to US interest rate and kills all hope favorable profit / risk ratio. You opposed the 2% IOF and I supported it. Clearly I was correct about its effect.
In support of my just made claims (prior post) about SouthAmerica's wrong POV on the new Brazilian 2% IOF tax vs. mine: Following from thread: "Here is why the worldâs smart money is being invested in Brazil." of the "Economics" forum http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=76323&perpage=6&pagenumber=26 http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=76323&perpage=6&pagenumber=27
Why would any country want to invest in Brazil? Brazil is a banana republic. Honduras lodges lawsuit against Brazil at U.N. court Thu Oct 29, 10:40 am ET AMSTERDAM (Reuters) â Honduras has lodged legal proceedings against Brazil at the U.N. court in The Hague seeking an end to Brazil allowing ousted President Manuel Zelaya to take refuge in the Brazilian embassy in Tegucigalpa. Zelaya has been holed up at the heavily guarded Brazilian embassy since he snuck back into the country last month. The leftist leader was toppled in a military coup after he angered business leaders, the military and political rivals by moving Honduras closer to Venezuela's socialist president, Hugo Chavez. In its filing at the ICJ, or world court, Honduras says Zelaya and others are using the embassy as a platform for political propaganda, "threatening the peace and internal public order of Honduras." Honduras requested the court declare that Brazil does not have the right to allow its embassy to be used to promote "manifestly illegal activities" by Honduran citizens. It wants the court to order Brazil to stop providing refuge. In its filing, lodged with the court on Wednesday but made public on Thursday, Honduras said it reserves the right to claim reparation for any damage resulting from the actions of Brazil, its embassy and the Honduran persons taking refuge there. Honduras said it might also file a request for the "indication of provisional measures" if Brazil does not immediately end the disturbance. Typically cases before the ICJ take years to settle but if a party requests an "indication of provisional measures," the court's judges can make a swift provisional order. (Reporting by Aaron Gray-Block, editing by Paul Casciato) http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20091029/wl_nm/us_honduras_brazil_un/print
A few days ago I read (in an article from Motley Fools, I think, but only copied it without recording the link) the following to answer your question (Selected part of a long article): {Brazilâs} âhighly professional central bank, which, independent of political pressures, kept real interest rates high in the Brazilâs commodities-crazed bonanza years. That restraint kept the economy from overheating, built a rock-solid cushion of international reserves to be deployed precisely in a crisis like the one we experienced last year, and resulted in a healthy internal banking system.â âWhen a country enjoys twin surpluses (primary fiscal and current account) and is sitting on some $200 {actually it is $232 now as the Central Bank has been buying billions every week to keep the dollar from slidding down against the Real even more} billion of international reserves, the risk of capital flight that could cripple the economy is minimized. In Brazilâs case, its high level of foreign reserves and a flexible, floating exchange rate {not like China} were enough to insulate the economy from the global banking freeze and provide the financing to keep exports rolling.â âThe fact that Brazilâs economy is only 13% dependent on foreign trade limited the downside effects of the global crisis. The fiscal surplus and strong banking system allowed for ample fiscal stimuli and credit expansion to take place. ⦠{so} The economy has added 1 million jobs, {formal ones and twice that infomally - home industries, street sellers, house painters, etc. - a booming economy} which replaced the 800,000 jobs lost during the crisis.â {Also note that unlike deep in debt US, Brazil is a net creditor nation.} ââ¦key short-term rates at 8.75% and inflation right below 4.5%, Brazilâs monetary policy is one of the tightest in the world. But these levels are at record lows for Brazil, which traditionally runs tight monetary policies to prevent its economy from overheating.â {Brazil already knows what US will soon learn that run-away inflation is very destructive.} âInternational Monetary Fund just published a book entitled âCrisis Averted â What Next?â In it, the IMF highlights the fact that commodity exporters like Brazil are leading the recovery and will have to exit monetary and fiscal stimuli earlier than the rest of the world.â âIts September trade surplus was $1.3 billion, down from $3.1 billion the prior month. The strong appreciation of the Brazilian real, which has rallied some 35% against the U.S. dollar this year, was the main impetus behind this decline.â {This despite the dozens of billions of dollar the central bank took off the market to keep the dollar from declining even more against the real. Note also last week Brazil imposed a 2% tax on hot money of the carry trade both entering and then when leaving. â A self defense measure against the US setting interest rates near zero and flooding the world with newly printed dollars. As I said above Brazil already knows how destructive rampant inflation is and follows a tight money policy.} âSo, we will continue to go long on Brazil, but since weâre up 110% on my previous EWZ recommendation, we should lock in some profits for risk management purposes.â But you feel free to sit the party out on an economy that is growing investor profits as fast or faster than China is, and already has an economy that is 87% based on its own internal markets and is so self-sufficient in everything a modern economy needs that it exports minerals, food, energy, etc. to others. Yes that sounds like a terrible place to invest â you are so smart not to. Cleverly avoiding a "Banana Republic" :eek:
What's funny is that the op wants other countries to invest in Brazil, while trying to get the government to take over their companies like PBR which would mean stealing all of the money from the public shareholders. You can't have it both ways. Either keep all companies private, or don't have anyone invest in your country. I have taken all of my money out of Argentina. When the United States sneezes, the rest of the world has a flu. I would suggest that its much better for rest of the world to invest in China instead especially China resource companies.