The Shorting of Frauds, Overhyped and Bankrupt Stocks Journal

Discussion in 'Journals' started by Daal, Jun 8, 2012.

  1. Daal

    Daal

    I'm back at shorting TEA. Downside is 2 cents upside is large. SBUX said deal is supposed to close this month, no word yet, likely they are still working on it but could be a bad sign so I'm taking my chances
     
    #501     Dec 24, 2012
  2. Daal

    Daal

  3. Daal

    Daal

  4. Daal

    Daal

    I ended up making a bit on the HLF bounce. I'm now long LPH, same thesis
    When everybody and their mothers are shorting a stock and the stock is down huge on long-term thesis its often a good idea to buy, it doesn't matter how worthless the stock is, it will find buyers and shorts will cover as well. The exceptions are
    -Stocks in a liquidity crisis
    -Stocks that have a near-term catalyst for a immediate collapse (bk filling, SEC halt and things along those lines)

    Other than that you got to buy super volume washouts everytime. Best strategy to play these is to scale in the position without stops. Matter of fact on HLF I made less than I should have because I used stops and ended up panicking on the first try. Averaging in is the way to go. Control risk through the position sizing. If the stock goes to $0 then you were wrong about the no near-term catalyst issue
     
    #504     Jan 3, 2013
  5. Daal

    Daal

    LPH has the risk of SEC halt and ban. But the SEC is slow on these things, will probably take months for them to do anything about it meanwhile the chinese and their criminal network will try to get the stock up
     
    #505     Jan 3, 2013
  6. Daal

    Daal

    When I say near-term catalyst I refer to something other than the momentum selling. Often these stocks will continue to go lower, perhaps much lower even though there is new info out about the company. That is fine, when the bounce comes it's usually very significant

    Usually the more scared you are to buy the better
     
    #506     Jan 3, 2013
  7. m22au

    m22au

    Regarding going long LPH, and also other similar Chinese stocks, these carry far greater risk than HLF.

    I have strong memories of PUDA. The report came out, and I think it was the same afternoon that it was halted, which lasted for months. Then it reopened down by a massive amount.

    LPH could be the same situation, which is the second scenario you describe:

    "Stocks that have a near-term catalyst for a immediate collapse (bk filling, SEC halt and things along those lines)".

    ****

    Separate to that, after reading a few neutral / bullish reports on HLF, I covered my (small) short in the high 20s. With the benefit of hindsight I could have gone long, and/or sold a put spread. But still I am grateful to Mr Ackman for providing the catalyst for the big plunge in the stock, regardless of where HLF goes in the long-term.
     
    #507     Jan 3, 2013
  8. Daal

    Daal

    How often does the SEC shutdown frauds quickly? If they get this one I will consider myself unlucky. Usually it takes months, FSIN was a total fraud and got bought out
     
    #508     Jan 3, 2013
  9. m22au

    m22au

    You're right, it is rare that the SEC act quickly on these types of stocks.

    However from memory in the PUDA situation it was the board that initiated an investigation.

    Either way, it really just comes down to risk management. If you take a small enough position, then if

    (1) the stock reopens today or tomorrow and doesn't bounce (much)
    or
    (2) the stock is halted for weeks/months, then goes lower

    it won't matter too much.
     
    #509     Jan 3, 2013
  10. Daal

    Daal

    I agree
     
    #510     Jan 3, 2013