The Shorting of Frauds, Overhyped and Bankrupt Stocks Journal

Discussion in 'Journals' started by Daal, Jun 8, 2012.

  1. Daal

    Daal

    This is not a threat in small offering but here the offering is so huge it could play a factor. I'm not sure there is a lockup period, I'm guessing there isn't since they controlled the terms
     
    #171     Aug 5, 2012
  2. Daal

    Daal

    So how much is KCG is worth now?
    I believe a better question is how much will the market value KCG next week. Its a guessing game but using information and market experience these guesses can have positive expectancy

    Company was worth $1B before debacle, so we know where the ceiling is, its extremely likely it will be bellow the ceiling due a number of factor but the main ones are
    -Algo trading is more levered than thought. Company had $1B in tangible equity and 1 bug led to a $15B stock purchase, this calls for a lower multiple
    -Shock factor, for a period of time stock will trade at a lower multiple simply because people will be selling as their thesis was wrong(This is similar to how spin offs tend to have their shares depressed as people sell because they have no intention of owning the spin off)
    -Conversion sellers at any price above $1.5 could depress stock
    -Regulatory and legal action against the company now is possible

    The first 2 are the most solid, I'm fairly sure they will play a role, the third one will at least play some factor, the last one is more uncertain. It might or might not be factored in by the investors

    Over all with $100M in earnings(And KCG earnings was NOT on track to be that this year even before the debacle, it was going to be lower) a decent valuation guess would be $700M
    This would be about $1.9 per share with the likely surprises coming to the downside
     
    #172     Aug 5, 2012
  3. m22au

    m22au

    $700 million sounds reasonable, or even bit more. The 2% coupon on the bond means that there is very little additional interest expense. Analysts can now value the company on the basis of future profitability.

    We could use $2 per share as a round number.

    364 million shares * 2 = $728 million which sounds about right.

    Maybe as high as $2.50 (364 * 2.50 = 910 million) after 9.30am.

    Obviously at $2.85-ish it still looks a bit high, at least to this observer.
     
    #173     Aug 6, 2012
  4. Daal

    Daal

    Last 2 times there was bad news on the stock, it sold off the whole day and closed at lows
     
    #174     Aug 6, 2012
  5. Daal

    Daal

    I think the right number of shares outstanding might be 355. Option compensation might not be exercisable anymore
     
    #175     Aug 6, 2012
  6. newwurldmn

    newwurldmn

    Basically it was a secondary. The convertible was probably for accounting reasons.

    Looks like I was wrong. Hoping I can get out of my position without too much pain.
     
    #176     Aug 6, 2012
  7. Daal

    Daal

    You should be delta hedging in the pre-market. $3 was a gift for those who wanted out
     
    #177     Aug 6, 2012
  8. m22au

    m22au

    Yeah I would guess that it has some intraday support at 2.27 (Thursday low), which equates to a market cap of
    364 * 2.27 = 826 million

    or using 355 million shares as the count
    355 * 2.27 = 805 million

    Still a bit high, but a reasonable number.
     
    #178     Aug 6, 2012
  9. Daal

    Daal

    #179     Aug 6, 2012
  10. Daal

    Daal

    "Going Concern
    On August 1, 2012, at the open of trading at the NYSE, the Company experienced a technology issue related to its installation of trading software
    which resulted in the Company sending numerous erroneous orders in NYSE-listed securities into the market. The Company has traded out of its entire
    erroneous trade position, which resulted in a realized pre-tax loss to the Company of approximately $440 million. This trading software was removed from the
    Company's trading systems on August 1, 2012.
    As a result of this issue relating to the trading software and the resultant loss, the Company experienced reduced order flow and liquidity pressures, and
    its capital base was severely impacted. In view of the impact to the Company's capital base and the resultant loss of customer and counterparty confidence,
    there is substantial doubt about the Company's ability to continue as a going concern. In light of this development, the Company, after evaluating and
    pursuing various strategic alternatives, entered into a securities purchase agreement with several investors on August 5, 2012. Upon the closing of the
    transactions contemplated by that securities purchase agreement, which is anticipated to occur on August 6, 2012, the investors will purchase an aggregate of
    $400.0 million of convertible preferred stock. Consequently, the accompanying Consolidated Financial Statements have been prepared assuming that the
    Company will continue as a going concern and do not include any adjustments that might have resulted from the outcome of this situation."

    $1B is much too high for a company with Going Concern sections in its SEC fillings
     
    #180     Aug 6, 2012