What can't you guys get into your head about this plumber thing: You don't need a license to be a "real plumber". You certainly don't have to be in the Union. If you have a licensed plumber, and he agrees to let you practice under his license, then you can practice in townships (not in the city) without any restriction. If you screw up, the person who's license your practicing under is going to be in some deep shit (pardon the pun). Most plumbers in rural areas are not "real" plumbers.
A Letter to Joe the Plumber: Look, Joe, you don't know me, but I've also been blue-collar most of my life. I spent thirty-two years in a paper mill in southern Ohio, and before that I worked in a meatpacking plant and a shoe factory. Just like you, I know hard, dirty work: my last eighteen years at the mill I tended the ash silos in our coal-fired power plant. It was a union job; and I made good money, around $50,000 per annum counting overtime the last couple of years I worked there. But when I turned fifty, I decided to quit the mill and go to graduate school. I bring this up because you mentioned the "American Dream" in the Obama video I saw; and I wanted to let you know that, as far as I'm concerned, I've lived that dream. It is my hope that you get your chance to live it too. With that said, I was more than a little surprised by the comments you later made to the media. I watched the video, Joe, and I think any sane person would agree that Barack Obama tried his best to give you a straightforward, honest answer to your question. In other words, he didn't "tap-dance" around the issue at all. I can only believe that you had your mind made up to try to fluster him; and when it didn't work, you went ahead and pretended that it did. That, Joe, is a typical Republican strategy; and I'd like to think that you're better than that. Too, I'm a bit mystified that a plumber, a working man, would think that the Republican Party has ever had his best interests at heart. Out of the last forty years, the Republicans have held the White House all but twelve; and wages for the working class have stayed flat or fallen since the early Seventies, while the pay for the average CEO has risen a thousand to two thousand times. Now I can see from the video that you're a sharp guy; but we've just endured eight years with the worst president in our history, and yet you want more of the same? It's mind-boggling, to say the least. As for questioning the candidates, shouldn't you really be asking John McCain why he thinks he WON'T have to raise any taxes if he's elected? That promise is as ridiculous as his recent statement about knowing how to get Bin Laden. Think about it: Bush is leaving us flat-ass broke, and we still need to buy body armor for our soldiers and pave roads and build schools and take care of the elderly (and yes, Social Security was a great idea until the politicians started borrowing from it, but then maybe that was easier than raising taxes on a bunch of crybabies) and on and on. Unless we borrow more from China, that money will have to come from taxes. Even a fool can see through that bullshit. Another thing that struck me was your statement to Katie Couric that you don't think the wealthy should have to pay a higher tax rate than the average worker. Lord, Joe, you don't even own the company yet, and already you're thinking like a rich man! I suppose this indicates just how powerful your fantasies are, but damn, man, does that dream have to be all about money? We all need to take a serious look at where greed and selfishness has gotten us, Joe. Why does it have to be dog-eat-dog all the time? Shouldn't a wealthy man (or even a man making a fair wage) just be thankful that he's not homeless or working the checkout line at Wal-Mart instead of wanting MORE, MORE, MORE? Shouldn't he have enough gratitude for his good fortune that he'd gladly pay a little more in taxes than the people who work for him? Only the truly arrogant and greedy would argue against this kind of fairness. A wise man once said, "Taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society." That makes sense, regardless of what Sarah Palin might say (and she'll evidently say damn near anything). Now, of course, you can call me a socialist or a liberal, but really I just believe in fairness and decency for all people. Don't get me wrong: I think that everyone should put forth an effort to do better, but let's face it, some of us are just plain luckier than others. So, Joe, please be careful as you climb that ladder to success, or you're going to end up as miserable and bitter and despised as our current leaders, and I wouldn't wish that kind of life on anyone, not even a Republican. Sincerely, Don (the Factory Worker) Pollock
Hey stupid fuck, why don't you read the thread and try to understand what I've said, which was pretty much what you just said. That I think Joe is probably a good hard working average guy, and its not fair how he is being crucified for having dared to ask a question of Obama.
Lucas county requires plumbers to have a licence, therefore he's not a "real" plumber. If that was the only thing he lied about, it would be minor, and attacking him for it would be unfair. Sadly, he lied pretty much every time he opened his mouth thus making his question irrelevant. His question simply doesn't apply to real plumbers.
Agreed, that's a fact. So that makes of him a bigger loser than the loser he was a few days ago (Let's be honest, "Plumber" is a profession left for low-life types, academically retarded high school dropouts. Basically, liquid shit is what you're dealing with most of the time ) so here the fantasy part, This low life shouldn't concern himself with people who make over 250k since the probability that'll EVER access to that tax bracket is one in a million. He probably has more REAL pressing issues in his life (Health care, education). This guy is more "black" (if that means irresponsible loser devoid of ambition) than 90 % of the Black population. I'd be totally ok if the GOP chose another relevant poster child. An orthopedic surgeon who would threaten to move his practice to Monaco...but that guy is a total loser
MxJones, check out this article on how "real" Joe the Plumbers fared under the Bushies: "And when it turned out that the rightâs new icon had a few issues, like not being licensed and comparing Mr. Obama to Sammy Davis Jr., conservatives played victim: see how much those snooty elitists hate the common man? But whatâs really happening to the plumbers of Ohio, and to working Americans in general? First of all, they arenât making a lot of money. You may recall that in one of the early Democratic debates Charles Gibson of ABC suggested that $200,000 a year was a middle-class income. Tell that to Ohio plumbers: according to the May 2007 occupational earnings report from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the average annual income of âplumbers, pipefitters and steamfittersâ in Ohio was $47,930. Second, their real incomes have stagnated or fallen, even in supposedly good years. The Bush administration assured us that the economy was booming in 2007 â but the average Ohio plumberâs income in that 2007 report was only 15.5 percent higher than in the 2000 report, not enough to keep up with the 17.7 percent rise in consumer prices in the Midwest. As Ohio plumbers went, so went the nation: median household income, adjusted for inflation, was lower in 2007 than it had been in 2000. Third, Ohio plumbers have been having growing trouble getting health insurance, especially if, like many craftsmen, they work for small firms. According to the Kaiser Family Foundation, in 2007 only 45 percent of companies with fewer than 10 employees offered health benefits, down from 57 percent in 2000." http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/20/opinion/20krugman.html?hp Seneca
it is good for the economy if real wages lag inflation. Otherwise you have a deflationary situation, which is bad for the economy.
He's not being crucified for asking a question, he's being crucified for lying and pretending that his question had merit. It's an "Appeal To Authority" logical fallacy -- he held himself up as an authority on plumbing, then it turned out that it was all planted lies.