The Scary Thing About "Joe the Plumber"

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Brandonf, Oct 19, 2008.


  1. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
    So true.
     
    #101     Oct 22, 2008
  2. Yannis

    Yannis

    Another original thought... wow! :)
     
    #102     Oct 22, 2008
  3. From the Constitution:

    "The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no vote, unless they be equally divided."

    From the SENATE website:

    "During the twentieth century, the role of the vice president has evolved into more of an executive branch position. Now, the vice president is usually seen as an integral part of a president's administration and presides over the Senate only on ceremonial occasions or when a tie-breaking vote may be needed. "

    http://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/common/briefing/Vice_President.htm#2

    You betcha !!!!!

    Seneca

    ps-this is what to look for come January:

    End of an Era oops ERROR

    [​IMG]
     
    #103     Oct 22, 2008
  4. Yannis

    Yannis

    THE POPULISM DIVIDE
    By DICK MORRIS


    "As the election enters its last two weeks, social populism wars with economic populism to become the major outlet for American anger and angst and to satisfy the demand for change. In his book The Populist Persuasion, Michael Kazin articulates the difference between these two types of populism: economic and social.

    Economic populism, the staple of the Democratic left, demonizes Wall Street and glorifies Main Street. It rails against unequal distribution of wealth and warns, perpetually, that the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. From Andrew Jackson’s frontier democracy to Lyndon Johnson’s War on Poverty, economic populism has powered the left.

    Social populism, the conservative reply, attacks the values of Hollywood and the intellectual elite. It criticizes the welfare state and opposes a redistribution of wealth from the hardworking and deserving to what it sees as the freeloaders. More recent in origin, social populism has its roots in abolitionism and Prohibitionism and achieved its modern form in Richard Nixon’s silent majority, Jerry Falwell’s and Pat Robertson’s Christian Coalition and Ronald Reagan’s new right-wing majority. Within the Republican Party, social populists oppose the country-club wing and emphasize social conservatism over economic austerity.

    In recent years, both forms of populism have been in remission. Clinton’s policies of triangulation and Bush’s lack of focus on domestic issues have steered both parties away from either economic- or social-populist impulses.

    But the Obama campaign has been, from the beginning, grounded in economic populism. His explicit attack on the Bush tax cuts “for the rich” and his promise to make them “pay a little bit more” resonated with economic-populist voters. When the Wall Street crisis hit and top executives fled failing companies, taking hundreds of millions of dollars with them, the economic populists powered Obama to a nine-to-10-point lead in the polls.

    But meanwhile, social populism was making a comeback on the right. Initially galvanized by Mike Huckabee, the social populists went wild when McCain chose Sarah Palin for vice president. Palin’s life story epitomized the values of social populists. Her opposition to abortion, her mothering of a special-needs child, her backing for guns and her robust crusade for energy sources brought mainstream Republican values to the McCain ticket. If McCain wins this election, which he might well, it will have been the social populism of Sarah Palin that engineered much of his comeback.

    When the financial crisis broke, McCain and Palin attacked corporate greed and called for restoring values on Wall Street. But their critique seemed merely a faint echo of the outrage of the left’s economic populists.

    Then came Obama’s conversation with Joe the Plumber, possibly the decisive moment in the election. His blunt, blue-collar criticism of Obama’s proposal to “spread the wealth around” found immediate resonance among social populists. Where economic populists want to take from the undeserving, overfed rich and give to the needy poor, social populists decry taking from hardworking, thrifty citizens and giving to illegal immigrants and the self-indulgent lazy.

    At last, the McCain camp has something to say. Finally, it has, in McCain’s phrase, “nailed Jell-O to the wall” and found a way to attack Obama’s tax plans and support for social engineering and income redistribution.

    It is true that the richest Americans are getting richer a lot faster than the rest of the country. The top 10 percent experienced a real (after inflation) income growth of almost 50 percent in this decade. The rest of America saw its income rise, but by less than 5 percent after inflation.

    But it wasn’t Bush tax cuts that fueled the growing inequality. The top 1 percent of American taxpayers now pay 40 percent of the taxes (compared with 33 percent in 2003 and 24 percent in 1986).

    Obama’s proposed increase in taxes on the rich will kill the economy and send us into a deeper depression.

    But Clintonian policies like expanding the earned income tax credit, stretching out eligibility for food stamps and Medicaid, and funding college scholarships can make a huge difference. How will we pay for them? By keeping taxes on the rich at their current levels and using growing tax revenues to pay to promote downward irrigation of wealth.

    Politically, the unalloyed triumph of economic populism is at an end. Social populism is back in play. And may the best populism win."
     
    #104     Oct 22, 2008
  5. ak15

    ak15

    Palin:

    " A VP is in charge of the senate. If they want to, they can really get in there with the senators and make a lot of good policy changes that will make life better for Brandon and his family".

    Have you ever seen a VP "really get in there with the senators and make a lot of policy changes?" Obviously not, because he/she is not allowed these powers under the constitution.
    The only power specifically outlined in the Constitution for a vice president is to preside over the Senate and have a vote in case of a tie as relating to his role in the Senate.

    The next thing I know you'll probably be suggesting that Brandon the 3rd Grader is part of the mean old 'Gotcha' Media'.
    :D
     
    #105     Oct 22, 2008
  6. A VP is the boss of the senate and leader of all the senators. A VP can tell the senate what laws to pass if the VP so wishes. Also the VP oversees money for poor countries so they can be able to have maps to read. And for our children. Also VPs sometimes get gotcha questions from 3rd graders.... which is unfair.
     
    #106     Oct 22, 2008
  7. Yannis

    Yannis

    Yes, of course: Dick Cheney visited the Senate an average of 3 days a week and worked hard to effect change there during the first 6 years of the Bush presidency, before there were two many stupid Dems there. In this capacity he was instrumental in shaping and helping to pass many important bills like massive tax relief, funding two wars, education reform, prescription funding for seniors, etc etc. Great VP, especially when he's shooting lawyers :)
     
    #107     Oct 22, 2008
  8. ak15

    ak15

    He may have visited the senate thrice a week (debatable) but never actively got on the floor with senators in shaping policy changes. He may have presided over senate floor debates (debatable) but had no voice in the debate process itself.

    While the Vice President does serve as president of the Senate, according to the U.S. Constitution, the vice president’s role is fairly limited to casting tie-breaking votes.

    Article I of the Constitution states that "The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no vote, unless they be equally divided."

    In recent years, the role has been largely ceremonial. Vice President Dick Cheney has cast just eight tie-breaking votes during the Bush administration. Most recently in March, Vice President Cheney broke a tie on a procedural motion whether to consider an amendment that would have rolled back tax rates for the alternative minimum tax.

    The vice president can also preside over floor debates in the Senate - a role usually filled by the Senate president pro tempore, and more often done by first-term senators.

    The actions you are describing are "behind the scenes" lobbying and are not part of the floor debate protocol or process. Such actions are not privy to any individual and are part of the political landscape involving covert horse trading.They most certainly do not lend credence to the hockey mom's claim of actually getting in there with the senators on the floor and making policy decisions on the floor.
     
    #108     Oct 22, 2008
  9. Sorry Yannis, but that's more Republican lies. Cheney claimed he was at the Senate most Tuesdays, which is provably just another lie as the Senate keeps records. Here is a list of the Senate's Acting Presidents for every Tuesday session for 2001.

    January 30 - Enzi
    February 6 - Chafee
    February 13 - Chafee
    February 27 - Allen
    March 6 - Burns
    March 13 - Reid
    March 20 - DeWine
    March 27 - Chafee
    April 3 - Smith
    April 24 - Chafee
    May 1 - Chafee
    May 8 - Chafee
    May 15 - Frist
    May 22 - Chafee
    June 5 - Enzi
    June 12 - Byrd
    June 19 - Carper
    June 26 - Bayh
    July 10 - Nelson
    July 17 - Clinton
    July 24 - Byrd
    July 31 - Stabenaw
    September 25 - Wellstone
    October 2 - Clinton
    October 9 - Clinton
    October 16 - Edwards!!!!!
    October 23- Byrd
    October 30 - Bingaman
    November 13 - Murray
    November 27 - Jeffords
    December 4 - Stabenaw
    December 11 - Carnahan
    December 18 - Nelson

    A reward to whoever finds a Tuesday in 2002, 2003 or 2004 that Dick Cheney fulfilled his duties as President of the Senate here:

    http://www.gpoaccess.gov/crecord/index.html

    2002

    Tue 1/29 - Nelson
    Tue 2/5 - Kohl
    Tue 2/12 - Stabenow
    Tue 2/26 - Landrieu
    Tue 3/5 - Edwards
    Tue 3/12 - Landrieu
    Tue 3/19 - Miller
    Tue 4/9 - Cleland
    Tue 4/16 - Reed
    Tue 4/23 - Wellstone
    Tue 4/30 - Nelson
    Tue 5/7 - Miller
    Tue 5/14 - Cleland
    Tue 5/21 - Nelson
    Tue 6/4 - Durbin
    Tue 6/11 - Corzine
    Tue 6/18 - Dayton
    Tue 6/25 - Landrieu
    Tue 7/9 - Reed
    Tue 7/16 - Corzine
    Tue 7/23 - Reed
    Tue 7/30 - Clinton
    Tue 9/3 - Reed
    Tue 9/10 - Corzine
    Tue 9/17 - Reid
    Tue 9/24 - Stabenow
    Tue 10/1 - Miller
    Tue 10/8 - Miller
    Tue 10/15 - Reid
    Tue 11/12 - CHENEY! -- WE HAVE A WINNER!
    Tue 11/19 - Barkley (MN)

    2003

    Jan 7 *Cheney*
    Jan 14 Stevens
    Jan 22 Stevens
    Jan 28 Stevens
    Feb 4 Stevens
    Feb 11 Stevens
    Feb 25 Stevens
    Mar 4 Stevens
    Mar 11 Stevens
    Mar 18 Stevens
    Mar 25 Stevens
    Apr 1 Stevens
    Apr 8 Stevens
    Apr 29 Stevens
    May 6 Talent
    May 13 Ensign
    May 20 Alexander
    June 3 Stevens
    June 10 Stevens
    June 18 Murkowski
    June 24 Coleman
    July 8 Stevens
    July 15 Stevens
    July 22 Chaffee
    July 29 Stevens
    Sept 2 Stevens
    Sept 9 Stevens
    Sept 16 Stevens
    Sept 23 Stevens
    Sept 30 Sununu
    Oct 21 Stevens
    Oct 28 Stevens
    Nov 4 Stevens
    Nov 11 Warner
    Nov 18 Stevens
    Dec 9 Stevens

    2004

    1/20 - Stevens
    1/27 - Enzi
    2/3 - Stevens
    2/10 - Stevens
    3/2 - Stevens
    3/9 - Hagel
    3/16 - Sununu
    3/23 - Stevens
    3/30 - Ensign
    4/6 - Cornyn
    4/20 - Stevens
    4/27 - Chambliss
    5/4 - Stevens
    5/11 - Stevens
    5/18 - Stevens
    6/1 - Stevens
    6/8 - Hutchinson
    6/15 - Stevens
    6/22 - Allard
    7/6 - Burns
    7/13 - Stevens
    7/20 - Enzi
    9/7 - Stevens
    9/14 - Chafee
    9/21 - Enzi
    9/28 - Stevens
    10/05 - Stevens
     
    #109     Oct 22, 2008
  10. If reality is scary then yes joe the plumber is scary.
     
    #110     Oct 22, 2008