The Rise of Tripled Leveraged ETF's

Discussion in 'ETFs' started by marketsurfer, Dec 5, 2008.

  1. FAZ has been a great ETF to own puts on. After I made the stupid mistake of trying to bottom fish SRS, puts on FAZ saved the day and my P&L. It seems based on some arguments, that FAZ could eventually end up trading sub $10, unless there is a nasty and sustained reversal in the markets.
     
    #41     Sep 19, 2009

  2. It is under REG T and margin rules. the FED reserve board actually set the margin rules for a retail trader.

    props firms can use more leverage as they have their traders/ the firm register with an exchange and are listed as "professional traders" Some prop firms call it leverage or just simply BP.
     
    #42     Sep 19, 2009
  3. Hi,

    Does anybody here use "Short" ETFs for hedging a long term portfolio?

    For example, you buy $10k worth of BGZ for every 100k in your longterm trend following portfolio, and you are still effectively maintaining a bullish bias of about 77%.

    And you wouldn't have to pay interest on the leveraged short because its effectively like buying and holding a single stock.

    Has anybody considered this?
    Any thoughts on such a strategy? Any obvious flaws?

    Thanks.
    Nizar.
     
    #43     Oct 9, 2009
  4. zdreg

    zdreg

    margin rules for 3x are changing by dec.1. this game is over.
     
    #44     Oct 9, 2009
  5. Ok lets give an example.

    A 100k portfolio starts right at the market top.

    Investor A.
    100k longterm trend following.

    Investor B.
    90k longterm trend following, 10k on BGZ.

    The longterm trend following component goes into a 40% drawdown as the market crashes. Lets say the market crashed 50%

    Investor A is down to $60k.
    Investor B; LTTF component is down to $54k (90k less 40%) BUT his ETF is suddenly worth $25k (up 150%).

    Total portfolio value stands at:

    Investor A has $60k
    Investor B has $54k + 25k = $79k.

    So at this stage max.DD for Investor B is actually 21% as opposed to 40%.

    Let's see what happens in the recovery.

    Let's say that during this initial recovery period the LTTF system is up 30% and the market recovered by 50%.

    Investor A: $60K + 30% = $78k.
    Investor B: $54k + 30% = $70k.
    Thats just his LTTF component.
    His BGZ gets ABSOLUTELY punished and is now worth only $4k (from $25k) down 83.33%.

    So the conclusion;

    Investor A: $78k.
    Investor B: $74k.

    So while the hedge does (obviously) limits the upside, it does so disproportionately to the limited risk.
    Seems a goer.

    The next question is, when, or how often, do you rebalance the portfolio to reflect the 90/10 split?
     
    #45     Oct 9, 2009
  6. user X

    user X

    I'm not sure what a "goer" is, but if it means BAD IDEA, then I agree.

    How is that a trend following strategy? If it was, then the long positions would be sold off and replaced with short positions when the market turned down. Then, when the market turns up, the shorts are replaced with longs.

    That scenario sounds like buy-and-hold to me, and leveraged ETFs are losers for buy-and-hold.
     
    #46     Oct 10, 2009
  7. Funny guy.
    You have misunderstood me.

    90% of the system will be in a long-only Long term trend following system on stocks, where you buy breakouts, let winners run, cut losers short. Very profitable. Only problem is severe drawdowns.

    What Im proposing is to put 10% of the capital into an inverse 3x ETF to hedge against crashes/corrections.

    I didn't mention shorting at all.
     
    #47     Oct 10, 2009
  8. Such a shame. Once again FINRA and the big guys going after the individual trader/ small rules instead of the big problems in trading.
     
    #48     Oct 10, 2009
  9. Any one with mathematical mind wouldn't hold them overnight. The daily tracking is ultimate sucker for overnight holders. If you can't daytrade; please stay away. If you can, then make sure to return it to issuer by market close.

    Mathematically anyone shorting both side of 3X Etfs are always winner. Sadly retail investor are always on other side. This is a legal scam.
     
    #49     Oct 10, 2009
  10. user X

    user X

    I understand who is on the other side of my winning trades. See you in the markets. Bring that "BGZ isn't a short" strategy, and bring your capital.
     
    #50     Oct 10, 2009