the reason indicators don't work isn't because they're lagging

Discussion in 'Technical Analysis' started by 1a2b3cppp, Jan 23, 2018.

  1. Overnight

    Overnight

    The only predictive indicator is the trader him/herself. If a moving average is showing the bottom of a long range and thus shall historically move up, then TA says that we're going higher. Yet that same TA will not react at all to news until AFTER it has come out.

    So while the TA in and of itself says go long, a scandal/issue comes out during off-hours and the trader knows that the news is going to suck hard on next opening. Why? Based upon past experience of how said news will affect a market.

    Thus, the trader predicts the right move is to go short. The ineffable quality of judgement cannot be programmed.

    A trader is his/her best indicator. The rest are just guidelines. But blind TA can't ever work, because all TA is blinded by the past.
     
    #31     Jan 27, 2018
  2. bone

    bone

    Well the point is - you need SOME market data reference in order to take on calculated risk in the markets. Everything is lagging. My consciousness is lagging. IBM’s Watson can’t predict the future - but it sure as shit can beat any human alive in a number of games.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2018
    #32     Jan 27, 2018
    Overnight likes this.
  3. lovethetrade

    lovethetrade Guest

    Indicators don't work because they represent the outcome of market behaviour not the root cause. Causation is more important than outcomes.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 27, 2018
    #33     Jan 27, 2018
  4. My experience suggests the opposite. Expect a PM
     
    #34     Jan 27, 2018
  5. lovethetrade

    lovethetrade Guest

    Sorry, that should be "causation takes precedence over outcomes".
     
    #35     Jan 28, 2018
  6. nickynoes

    nickynoes

    Define don't work. Does an indicator not work just because the trader using it is losing money? Some traders obviously have success with indicators that others do not, so I would say that the reason indicators don't work for some people is probably because they are worse at risk management or use a position sizing strategy that doesn't mix well with the expectancy of the traders usage of the indicator.
     
    #36     Jan 28, 2018
  7. Xela

    Xela


    Some people seem to imagine that, or something very close to it, certainly.

    The reality is that they all "work" in the sense of displaying what their instructions tell them to display; how one chooses to use that information is, of course, another matter.



    Indeed.



    It can include elements of both of those, but I think more often it's because people with sub-optimal understanding of statistics and probability are attributing to indicators ill-defined "predictive" powers they don't usually have, and/or (all too commonly) they believe that indicator-"signals" will be more profitable if and when they're "confirmed" by additional indicators.

    That last assumption typically rests on several misleading and inaccurate beliefs, some of which boil down to an often-subconscious (but very deeply held) and flawed assumption that higher win-rates are necessarily and intrinsically more profitable than lower win-rates. In practice, this problem tends to be exacerbated by the reality that those subscribing most firmly to this "theory" are also usually the least willing to examine the evidence to the contrary (Michael Shermer has written a lot about this).
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2018
    #37     Jan 28, 2018
    nickynoes and Sprout like this.
  8. Nice rule set, but if I may simplify it, it boils down to -
    1) rising volume - price continues direction
    2) falling volume - price reverses direction

    Am I missing anything? I'd like to use this - I've never really traded volume as an indicator, but I'd like to and want to make sure I got it right. I do agree it's got some validity.

    However, there are cases of high volume reversals - large stop triggers being the most obvious. How do you deal with that situation? Is it a time-frame issue, where this case happens very quickly, so it would only affect day traders?
     
    #38     Jan 28, 2018

  9. Why not have this on-chain? I'd appreciate being able to follow the discussion.
    cheers.
     
    #39     Jan 28, 2018
  10. nickynoes

    nickynoes

    Agreed, broadly speaking I guess you could state that indicators 'don't work' because the trader using them just doesn't know how to use them correctly. What has lead to the trader not using it correctly could be an infinite combination of things really, since every trader is a unique composition of psychological issues.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2018
    #40     Jan 28, 2018
    bone, speedo and Xela like this.