The Only Bailout Thread I'll Start

Discussion in 'Economics' started by Pa(b)st Prime, Sep 22, 2008.


  1. My money is in over the top crap places.

    1. The brokerage arm of a too big to fail money center bank.

    2. A small uninsured Chicago FCM.

    3. A residance in South Florida.

    4. A condo in Chicago.


    I'm a d-bag of the highest order by not owning a bunch of gold but if there is indeed any type of currency collapse I'd expect my RE to at least hold some semblance of global purchasing parity. Of course I'd rather be at parity with Paris instead of Bogotá but.......
     
    #11     Sep 22, 2008
  2. dhpar

    dhpar

    yes - but you did not have to start this thread to figure this out :)

    i said it in a different thread on this topic; people are monkeys - they like it simple. that's why we have so many tragedies in 20th century after all... And 21st is not going to be any different...

    p.s. by the way - still short ZBs?
     
    #12     Sep 22, 2008
  3. RedDuke

    RedDuke

    Pabst,

    Great Summary.

    What do you think about this whole cap execs pay. It looks great on paper, but if it is implemented, what would be their incentive to stay to help clean up the mess.

    But if you do not hit people at their wallets, how will they learn not to do stupid things again.

    A true Gordian Knot.

    Regards,
    redduke
     
    #13     Sep 22, 2008
  4. jprad

    jprad

    If your figures of deposits to reserves are correct than banks are operating at around 25:1 leverage.

    Explain to me how a CD earning around 4% APY is a true reflection of the risk that sort of leverage carries?

    Same goes with people building houses in high-risk areas. Fine with me, but I sure as hell don't agree that I should have to subsidize rebuilding it after it gets destroyed if I'm not offered the opportunity to use it.

    I agree with you that the bailout is required. But, it's got to carry the price of people being held accountable for their actions instead of being given a mulligan after violating the public's trust.
     
    #14     Sep 22, 2008
  5. Hey bro! Thank's for the kind words.

    A couple of points. Notice how these investment banks started to take increased risk only after they became public corporations? The shareholder dilution has been extreme and it's an unheralded reason for why share prices across the board have been hit to such extremes.

    Also as we've all know all along: Execs, managers and traders at IB's and hedge funds are long a free call on performance while investors and stock owners are short a naked put. I don't suppose that dynamic will change per se' but I'd expect to see a lot less cash compensation going forward.

    The answer: Pay folks with out of the money call options.
     
    #15     Sep 22, 2008
  6. CD's are woefully mis priced. Risk across the board is STILL priced too cheap. We didn't dodge a bullet here. We're shot and I suspect wounded on the brink of mortal danger.

    A lot of guys will be thinking good "shut the bastards down." Sounds prudent until they face the day in a year or two when they can't buy or sell a used car because ain't no one there to provide the loans.....
     
    #16     Sep 22, 2008
  7. dhpar

    dhpar

    not so fast. it depends more on maturity of options than on how much otm they are. in fact short dated otm are the worst you can have. but they are piles of books written on this and changes still did not happen...
     
    #17     Sep 22, 2008
  8. I shouldn't have said "answer" dhpar. Just an idea and you rightfully exposed one of its major perils. :)
     
    #18     Sep 22, 2008
  9. GTS

    GTS

    Comparing the "leverage" of the FDIC vs LEH vs Allstate misses a fundamental point - not all leverage is equivalent, it depends on the risk of the investment. By just looking at the ratios you are comparing apples to oranges.
     
    #19     Sep 22, 2008
  10. Cutten

    Cutten

    I'd just point out that without a fractional-reserve system in the first place, this would be a non issue. There would be no FDIC insurance and no need for it. Banks would just take deposits and make loans - end of story.

    This bailout is an attempt to save the system. But when the system stinks in the first place, and is the reason for every crisis since 1913, why bother?

    Anyone chasing yield in bank accounts or CDs deserves whatever losses they take. Are prudent savers going to be compensated for 15 years of high yield backpayments for actually doing the work to ensure their funds are diversified and in sound *low leverage* assets and institutions? No. So fuck Joe Public - he took the risk, got the reward, now he can take the downside.
     
    #20     Sep 22, 2008