The next level

Discussion in 'Professional Trading' started by frank8800, Aug 23, 2010.

  1. After several years of struggles, I find myself (modestly) consistently profitable. I also find myself stagnating, in spite of all the books I read.

    I stopped reading various forums months ago because most of them were just people searching for magic - then I stumbled on this forum and have enjoyed it enough to actually register. I know an answer to my question is probably buried somewhere on this forum, but I thought I'd pose the question while I continue to search.

    What I would like to do is grow as a trader. Learn new set ups, different markets, techniques, etc. How can I get to the next level, which in my mind, is being a more versatile trader? Right now I'm only trading oil futures and using 2 setups. Sometimes I sit and watch all day without taking a trade because I didn't get a signal, even though the market might be moving 50+ ticks. It's very frustrating.

    I've thought about private mentoring, but am very suspicious of that concept. I've also thought about contacting some prop houses and see if they had a program that might fit me.

    Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
  2. Roark


    Take a page from the medical field: <i>See one, do one, teach one.</i> You've been doing. If you want to improve, teach someone. As explained by Dr. Brett Steenbarger in <b>The Daily Trading Coach:</b><blockquote><i>
    To be the trader you want to be, consider taking on a student/trainee. When someone is observing you and learning from you, you'll be on your best behavior. With the teaching script, you'll access behavior patterns that you would never enact in isolation. Alternatively, take on a peer mentorship role. The social motivation to live up to your best for your trading buddies will enable you to access your best behavior patterns.</i></blockquote>
    You think Bella of SMB Capital writes and teaches because he needs the money?
  3. How do you trade now? What setups do you look for etc..
  4. I'm trading on the TOS platform, and there's an indicator from John Person that I like. The main problem with it is it gives many false positives, so I use the MACD and basic charting patterns (resistance, support, pivots) to sort out the winners from losers. I trade 2 contracts on the 1 minute chart. If the trade is with the trend, I'll shoot for a 13 tick first target, then a 20 tick 2nd target. If the trade is against the trend, I go all in all out at 13 ticks.

    The other setup I use is just a simple retrace after a trend is established and I see a surge bar in the direction of the trade. I'll try to enter that at 50% and will cancel the order if not filled on the second bar.

    No doubt what I'm doing is unsophisticated and simplistic.

    I want to work on my 'tool box' and develop trades for all market conditions, and yesterday I spent several hours on the simulator trying to scalp 7 ticks from CL with mixed results.

    Regarding the previous suggestion about 'learn one teach one', I'm on that too. I've read all of Dr Brett's books, some more than once, and frequently talk to myself about trades as if I were counseling someone else. I find this helpful, plus, since I'm all alone, it gives me someone to talk to!
  5. Best thing is to do what works for you. I've used indicators for years, and would always flip-flop between different ones, and tweek the settings trying to find that perfect combo. Well that never happened, and now I trade with naked charts (more or less), and it feels much better. Now I don't have to analyze and decipher indicators.

    I don't trade futures, but I have traded one minute charts on stocks before, and I just don't see the selling point. WHY use a 1min chart other than the pure excitement factor?.

    If you want to be able to better predict price movement, get off the 1min charts. Period. They're just too choppy and random imo to even bother.

    I'd like to see some charts of your trades. Just curious.

    edit: " there's an indicator from John Person that I like. The main problem with it is it gives many false positives, so I use the MACD and basic charting patterns (resistance, support, pivots) to sort out the winners from losers. "

    This is a problem most indicator traders have. They start with one indicator, but they dont understand market structure, and their indicator is giving them many false signals (like you), and so now they add a second indicator to help "confirm" the first one, to make sure its a good trade. But then the second indicator isnt working as expected so the trader adds yet another to his charts, then a 3rd, and 4th..etc. this is a good example of what I'm talking about. I don't see him posting any more.

    At some point the trader takes off his indicators and says ok "I'm going to be a pa only trader!" doesn't last very long because now with naked charts, he has no indicators to point out when to buy and sell. He feels helpless against the market, because without his stochastics, the market looks like a bunch of zig-zag crap that makes no sense to him. He goes back to his indicators, except this time he tries a few new ones....maybe these will work better than the last ones?... time passes, and yet again he makes the vow to never trade with indicators. The cycle repeats. The months turn into years, and before you you know it, you look back on your trading "career" and realize that you've been running in circles for the past 5 yrs . One day you wake up, turn on your trade station, and say to yourself one last time that you're going to make a change. Your clear your charts off, and devote the next few years to understanding what it really means to be a price action only trader. You take what little money you have left by this point, and start over as a new trader.

    - KON
  6. I trade the 1 minute chart because of my risk tolerance. That's the same reason I day trade - I can't stand holding things over night.

    I PM'd you a link to all my charts and journal. My P&L, trade detail and other analysis tools I use are online too. If you're really bored, I can send that to you as well.

    Thanks for your interest and suggestion. I have heard that some people can trade off of a naked chart. I'm not there yet.
  7. my take on the 1min using action/reaction lines.
    • cl.jpg
      File size:
      164.1 KB
  8. Roark


    If you're feeling a bit lonely, there are trading chat rooms. I've tried the one available through I think Konviction gave you some pretty good advice. Indicators can get in the way and the <b>Best thing is to do what works for you.</b> You already report moderate success. Do more of what works and less of what doesn't. That's one of the prescriptions offered by my favorite trading coach:

    <blockquote><i>What if, at times, you already recognize market patterns, generate solid trading ideas, and manage risk well? What if you don't need to work on your trading problems at all and, instead, simply need to harness the influences that enable you to trade well?

    What if everything you need to succeed is already part of who you are and what you do? What if the only change you require is to become more consistent with your strengths and competencies?

    Would you still seek out advice from gurus? Would you still look for answers in the latest indicators and systems?</i></blockquote>
  9. It seems that you have many experience on trading, please share it to us so that we can do the trading more efficient