. ShoeshineBoy: I'm curious about something: do Brazilians in general feel part of "Latin American"? They've got a different language and heritage in certain ways, so do they really feel part of South American culturally and historically or do they feel mostly separate and independent? Yes, but notice that some of the articles say that they want to model it after the European Union. If so, there will be economic requirements for entry, which would be very good for the region. Brazil, Chili, etc. could take leadership in this and pull up the whole continent. This is effectively what the Eurocrats did and it has been quite effective, strengthening many economies that were headed nowhere. That's why I asked the question above: I am wondering if Brazil even wants that kind of role? I doubt they would if they do not identify with South American as a whole... ***** May 28, 2008 SouthAmerica: Reply to ShoeshineBoy You asked me: âThey've got a different language and heritage in certain ways, so do they really feel part of South American culturally and historically or do they feel mostly separate and independent?â Brazil is half of South America, but we donât relate well with most of the rest of South America. Uruguay, and Argentina has strong European roots. Uruguay used to be part of Brazil until 1828. When I was in high school in Brazil I learned very little about the history of the other South American countries. I learned a little more about the war where Argentina beat Brazil and Uruguay became an independent country (1825 to 1828) - until that point Uruguay used to be part of Provincia Cisplatina in the South of Brazil. We did not waste too much time with the history of the other South American countries they covered in one lesson the Spanish conquistadors including Pizarro and so onâ¦And I donât remember studying anything about Simon Bolivar or Jose de San Martin. The teachers in Brazil spent more time teaching us about the Incas than anything else since the Incas had a very advanced civilization in many ways. Brazil was the country that formulated foreign policy for South America 1 ½ year before the Monroe Doctrine and you can read about it at: February 2005 â âBrazil, the Original Leader of the Americas â Part Iâ http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/1360/49/ February 2005 â âBrazil, the Original Leader of the Americas â Part IIâ http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/1425/49/ I wrote 2 books about Brazilian history â about the independence of Brazil from Portugal. When I was writing these books I had to read many books on that subject and about the history of Brazil. I also had to read many books about The French Revolution because of its influence in Brazilian history. As far as I know most Brazilians are ignorant about the history of the other countries of South America other than Pizarro the Inca civilization and few names here and there such as Peron and Evita in Argentina, Salvador Allende and Pinochett in Chile, that long time dictador of Paraguay and I donât remember his name, and most recently Evo Morales in Bolivia, and Hugo Chavez in Venezuela. I am sure that most people from the Spanish countries in South America also donât have a clue about Brazilian history. There are many reasons for this disconnect between Brazil and the other countries of South America in the last 500 years. During the centuries Brazil has had a much closer relationship at many levels with European countries including Portugal, France, Holland, England, Germany and Italy. You also said: âThat's why I asked the question above: I am wondering if Brazil even wants that kind of role? I doubt they would if they do not identify with South American as a whole...â As far as I know they donât want play that kind of role. Brazil has enough problems to solve regarding the Brazilian population never mind trying to solve the problems for the entire South America. .
South america, tt's true that each of the south american countries have heaps of domestic problems they need to address. However, they can find strength in standing together - especially wrt to coordinated energy politics and defense - like I pointed out earlier. That could gradually help them resolving differences and see the advantages of a trading bloc - at least for some type of goods. It's so flaky however with all their different agendas - that I do not think it will fly with regards to broader politics - and nowhere close to something like the EU. That does not mean that a south american union is without merit, but like the african union - I wonder what they will get done in the end. They are developing countries with a challenging and difficult history, present and future ahead.
. May 27, 2008 SouthAmerica: Reply to all Sorry about my overreaction regarding the formation of the South America Union (SAU). But last Friday when I saw on the news on television and later read on the internet and major newspapers about the actual meeting and agreement reached regarding the formation of the SAU - The entire thing caught me by surprise. But after checking with various sources in Brazil including a reliable journalist of a major Brazilian newspaper I am feeling much better about this new SAU project. The feedback that I am getting from Brazil is that the SAU project it was born dead. They think the SAU project is going to amount to nothing. Here is an example of an email that I just received about this project: âNão se preocupe com a União, o projeto nasceu morto. Não vai dar em nada, já que temos Mercosul, OEA ( http://www.oas.org/ ), todos com o mesmo objetivo.â .
True about what will happen to this union - although it shows the will to do something. Mercosul is shot with the sabotaging between Brazil and Argentina too. Brazil doesn't freely accept vehicles assembled in Argentina but wants to expand their own cheap brazilian produced vehicles down south. Paraguay is the origin for most of the smuggled goods into Brazil, where electronics etc "enjoy steep import tarifs". Agriculture (especially delicious meat) and energy are the strong points in this region. If they could organize themselves and focus on these important areas - they could actually get something done IMO ... to improve conditions for the population and importance of the region as well as securing a more stable future.
sa, Think nothing of it. After all this latam emotion capital to the world. The EU was formed around a core of (nearly) continuously responsible governments in the hope that attaching nations would be drawn up the scale. There is no such core in south america. The notion that three drunk men can prop themselves up together also cuts the other way. In my opinion the sau is a vehicle for fudging responsibility away from the individual governments. regards f9
. Raptor Deus: What is being discussed is SA's support of the idea of Chavez 'taking over his spanish neighbors' to be the 'leader', which is exactly the same type of ambition Hitler had. What is even more absurd that it this would be ok with SA as long as Brazil is left alone. ****** May 29, 2008 SouthAmerica: You are assuming that I am a supporter of Hugo Chavez. You are the one who is missing the point â Hugo Chavez is the person holding a large pot of gold and his pot of gold is growing even more on a daily basis as the price of a barrel of oil is skyrocketing in world markets. Chavez can influence other politicians in South America to follow his lead since he has a lot of cash to spread around. Chavez knows that Brazil is not part of his circle of influence, and he can advance his agenda only with the other Spanish countries of South America. Chavez has similar roots and culture to many other Spanish countries in South America - and he would never be considered one of us in Brazil; even in one million years. It does not make sense for Chavez to do something stupid in relation to Brazil when he has the other 50 percent of South America to accomplish his goals. Chavez can buy the goodwill of the people of the countries that he might want to include on his Simon Bolivar Union. By the way, Hugo Chavez will never be the new Fidel Castro, unless the United States promotes him in that way. The United States always needs to promote a new boogieman to justify its massive defense spending. .
Excellent Commentary .......................................................................... fearless9 wrote.... Efficiency does exist here but it takes on a different form and has an entirely different meaning to that which most Westerners understand. ............................................................................... This is a very interesting statement as to how to get things done....in that very view accomplishments are linear....however objectives do not have to be ....maybe should not be thought about linearly.... This reminds me of how oil companies think...They know that there is oil in Iraq real estate....and everything else that happens around it be it straightforward commerce....Muslim hatred and militias killing their employees....all the issues on top including US politics....do not matter to machines that can produce Iraq oil at 80 cents to $1.80 per barrel....and they know the world in spite of all its negative and positive actions will enjoy and need cheap oil....because no ones enjoys expensive oil and a lower quality of materialism.... You make me think about Econometrics and Madala in college days gone by.... .......................................................... Same for stocks....there is no linearity in prices.... And very true....linearity is a far more simplistic way of thinking.... ....................................................... Upwardly linear as in El Faro Towers....and those around it....but assembly/construction came from all over the place.... ....................................................................... Which brings to mind.... What is a good leader ? One who understands the differences between linear and nonlinear thinking....and can get things done....as in building things efficiently.... Clinton got a taste of inability to organize in Haiti....as it takes someone who understands how to build in Haiti....the same being true with the Latin American countries.... One needs to be street smart....and book smart....
. June 1, 2008 SouthAmerica: There is an interesting article and discussion about the SAU that is going on right now on Brazzil magazine you can read it at: Brazil Leads Creation of South American NATO. US Counter Attacks. http://www.brazzil.com/articles/192...merican-nato-us-counter-attacks.html#comments .