The myth of letting your winners run

Discussion in 'Risk Management' started by Flowfollower, Jun 2, 2020.

How do you do it?

Poll closed Jul 21, 2020.
  1. Outlier hunting

    20.7%
  2. Profit target

    44.8%
  3. A combination of both eg trim and trail

    34.5%
  1. I'm also struggling with the 'letting winners run' philosophy.

    In February, I was fortunate enough to sell several large positions and buy a few put-options. I was buying hand-over-first in March-April. The question now is, what to do with the winners? As an example, I bought V at $150 (imo, an amazing entry) and it's now close to $200. I really don't want to sell it, but at the same time it's hard to imagine another significant move to the upside.

    I'm closing a few winners at the moment (mainly tech, MRVL, AMZN (crazy, right?) and moving into sectors that didn't see much of a rebound - primarily banks (JPM, RBS, HSBC, TD). The big risk here is that I'm selling winners to buy losers.

    My prediction is that value will rally in the next time-frame at which point I'll sell the banks and buy back my winners (tech) which will hopefully have not increased too far. Worst case, I'm left holding banks with a decent yield (once dividends are reinstated).
     
    #11     Jun 2, 2020
    CDoubleUU and Flowfollower like this.
  2. Handle123

    Handle123

    For me trading very long term stocks and commodities is based on when it will happen, winning percentages always been 5 to 15 percent a year, hedging is a must, learning risk increases chance of last trade being monster ratios of reward to risk and trailing stops cut off your profits long term.

    Scalping is not going for large profits, going for cents or ticks. Reward is often no better than risk so bottom line have to have losing percentages under 5% to do well enough considering overall risk is greatest for me.

    Swinging weekly options again has to have strict targets as closer to expiration, movements can get more wild.

    Losing percentages come first now in building trading ideas for what I trade as opposed the first 32 years of trading for positive outcomes. Learn to risk far less, hedged if possible allows larger positions put on.
     
    #12     Jun 2, 2020
    Flowfollower likes this.
  3. heispark

    heispark

    People also say no one went broke taking a profit.....
     
    #13     Jun 2, 2020
    Real Money likes this.
  4. 1. I disdain targets* (arbitrary, you know like your "option doubling"?)... recommend traders not use them. "Let your profits run"? Yes, if you can. Not easy. Trades should be more on the "swing" side rather than the "scalp" side. The market will give you every opportunity to turn a potentially large gain into a small one. The key to having a chance for letting profits run is better trade selection/entry.

    2. Trades should be "around support and resistance" with tight stops.

    3. The "trading game" is not won by making lots of trades... it's by making GOOD trades... and of course we all strive to "make LOTS of GOOD trades".

    * Unless the "target" is a clear support/resistance area on the chart
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2020
    #14     Jun 2, 2020
  5. wrbtrader

    wrbtrader

    It's not too much mental capacity. We should know what we're trading, know if the price action is in a trend, range, chop or whatever within the market context of the day.

    If the above is "too much mental capacity"...that's a person that should not be trading.

    wrbtrader
     
    #15     Jun 2, 2020
  6. taowave

    taowave

    The very simple answer to your question is backtest your "beliefs",walk it forward and you should be on your path.The answers will be in black and white.Easy,is it not???

    I can only speak for myself,but if the method of trading that stands out is not in my DNA,I have a bear of a time sticking to the golden rules..

    For me,it's letting profits run,or holding option positions fill expiration..

    From extensive backtesting,I have found that all these sacred trading mantras don't hold water..

    Far more important,is trading in a comfort zone and never ever doing anything dumb..Risk control is paramount,and I am pretty dam sure after making every mistake known to man,I have covered the bases..

    So the short answer to your question is bscktest,optimize the shit out of your curiosity,and then perform WFA..Thats the easy part..

    But IMHO,if you do not follow a path that can co exist with your emotional makeup,it's all for naught..
     
    #16     Jun 2, 2020
    Flowfollower and SimpleMeLike like this.
  7. lindq

    lindq


    It's one of the best guidelines in trading, because it's designed to keep traders from exiting trades early because of momentary fear or greed.

    The rule is not time specific. It can apply just as well to a scalper, as to a trader watching monthly charts, long or short.

    It's simply telling you that if you've established a profit objective, you should stay on that path unless you have a very good reason to deviate. And if you haven't designed a reasonable and TESTED profit objective or exit point, then you shouldn't be in the trade in the first place.
     
    #17     Jun 2, 2020
    comagnum likes this.
  8. So... How is it exactly that you "try" to let profits run? After all, you need to give the market some "breathing room" to contain counters and not get sucked out of the trade too soon.

    One tool is the "Regression Channel"... included in many charting programs.

    Whether the market/issue is bullish or bearish (or even sideways), nearly all of its action will be contained by its current channel. When price breaks out of the channel, you know the trend has changed... at least temporarily.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2020
    #18     Jun 2, 2020
  9. smallfil

    smallfil

    First you have to define your strategy, day trading, swing trading, trend following. Each one has a different way to exit your position. You are the ultimate fool if you believe, a one size fits all will work. I guarantee you it will not. There is no perfect solution. Stocks do run and at the least expected time you expect it. That is why you should be ready and in position to take advantage when it happens. One more reason risk management is so important to trading yet, ignored by 95% of traders. If you control your risk, the profits will take care of itself.
     
    #19     Jun 2, 2020
  10. taowave

    taowave

    Well said...I can not understand why anyone would choose to walk into the "Octagon" without having sparred first...


     
    #20     Jun 2, 2020
    wrbtrader likes this.