The mother of all shorts is building: 30-year T-Bond

Discussion in 'Trading' started by bond tr4der, Dec 4, 2008.

  1. tradersboredom

    tradersboredom Guest

    CORRECTION IF FED INTEREST RATE IS 10% ECONOMY IS BOOMING.

    BONDS IS MOSTLY PRESERVATION OF CAPITAL AND IS IDLE CAPITAL.

    RIGHT NOW BOND YIELDS IS SAME AS DIVIDENDS.

    INTEREST RATES DOWN
    BONDS GO UP.

    BOND TRADING IS BORING TOO.
     
    #31     Dec 8, 2008
  2. If what we've been witness to the past month in bonds is what you consider "boring", then I'd sure like to see what your idea of excitement is.

    Also, turn your caps lock off.
     
    #32     Dec 8, 2008
  3. achilles28

    achilles28

    Once banks are saved, all bets are off.

    It'll be a false recovery with high inflation, followed by jacked rates, and then the market, jobs and consumer gets flushed.

    Everyone keeps forgetting the Debt Order of Creditors:

    Banks
    Inflation
    Consumers


    High inflation is far more destructive than the paltry deflation we've seen so far. If the Powers-That-Be allow a resumption of consumer borrowing, we're gonna see it.

    The Optimists cite reflated wages to pay off Bubble Debt.

    Guess what? Wages never got close to home prices last time (hence, the massive defaults). In order to get wages close to Bubble debt, future real estate will be 200-500% higher than it is now. Gas 8 bucks. Bread 5 Bucks. etc etc. And a whole new raft of suckers get locked in at new tops with more debt than before. Thats what a "Bubble" is. And we're headed into a even bigger one than the last!!

    There's no way around it.

    Reflating a new Bubble to "save" the last will be more destructive than the current Bubble !!!! Isn't that obvious?? Once its done, Volker will save the day and we're all gonna be fucked.

    People have no idea how bad things will get if Bernacke doesn't nullify CDS and let Banks fail, right now.

    Its all political. The 9 Trillion laid out thus far was more than sufficient to solve this debacle many times over, yet here we are.

    Whether the Banks withhold credit indefinitely (deflation) or we go into massive inflation, the Treasury has made clear its motivations are driven purely by political interests - Ie. The Bankers.

    The only reason why Banks are reflating a new Bubble is because they got caught on the wrong side of the last one!! When they're in the Black, the Hammer is gonna drop on rates and all the Perma-Bulls and Consumers are gonna be left pissing in the wind.

    This thing is gonna end, and its gonna end badly.
     
    #33     Dec 8, 2008
  4. tradersboredom

    tradersboredom Guest

    the problem with the real estate bubble like many real estate bubbles was excessive 'speculation' with easy mortgages.

    why were the banks lending money who can't afford the mortgages with 5% downpayment. mortgages downpayment needs to be 25% or more if the market price is inflated. banks need to be more conservative in lending practices.

    the mortgage defaults are from job losses and from housing speculators or housing flippers.





     
    #34     Dec 8, 2008
  5. achilles28

    achilles28

    Yes and no.

    Speculation results from cheap credit.

    To single out the individual actors and not lay no blame on the Conductor (the FED), is sheer folly.

    Agree about mortgage securitization - there has to be fiscal accountability or Capitalism doesn't work.

    The FED must be dissolved = no more bailouts. Or Banks must hold paper for X years before disposition.

    With guaranteed bailouts, criminal regulators and raters, and instant securitization, bad debts are gonna flourish.

    As for homeowners who bought in at Bubble Top. Americans need to learn the hard way. Accountability means accountability for everyone - Banks and Consumers.
     
    #35     Dec 8, 2008
  6. Regarding TBT - and fully disclosing that I don't know much about ETFs - is there any disadvantage to using this ETF for the long term (say 5 years or so) and going long it now? I mean disadvantage in the method of shorting bonds...and the Lehman name - that doesn't mean too much, does it? Someone else just manages the ETF.
     
    #36     Dec 8, 2008
  7. From the prospectus, which you read: http://media.proshares.com/documents/ProSharesProspectus.pdf

    Principal Risks
    ProShares UltraShort Lehman 20+ Year Treasury
    is subject to the following principal risks:
    • Aggressive Investment Technique, Risk Correlation
    Risk, Counterparty Risk, Credit Risk, Debt Instrument
    Risk, Interest Rate Risk, Inverse Correlation
    Risk, Investment Company and Exchange Traded
    Fund Risk, Liquidity Risk, Market Price Variance
    Risk, Market Risk, Non-Diversification Risk,
    Portfolio Turnover Risk, Short Sale Risk and Valuation
    Time Risk.
    The Fund may be subject to risks in addition to those
    identified as principal risks. For more information on
    the Fund’s principal investment strategies and risks,
    including a description of the principal risks noted
    above, please refer to the sections entitled “Principal
    Investment Strategies” and “Principal Risks”. The section
    titled “Special Risks of Exchange-Traded Funds” in
    this Prospectus and the SAI contain additional
    information about the Fund and related risks.
     
    #37     Dec 8, 2008
  8. There may also be regulatory risk with the new Congress. They may feel that these inverse ETF's are short instruments in disguise, etc. God knows what they will do.
     
    #38     Dec 8, 2008
  9. If your question is not related to a retirement account, there is a way to address your concern (which is legitimate).

    PM me if you would like that I share such a info with you.
     
    #39     Dec 8, 2008
  10. Tacgnol is bearish on Treasuries and has taken large positions against them. I would have to concur.
     
    #40     Dec 8, 2008