The Mormon Delusion.

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by Free Thinker, Sep 10, 2012.

  1. We know all this stuff. its documented history and yet mitt romney isnt willing or able to understand. it says something about his critical thinking ability:

    The story from the Mormons, is that Joseph Smith began having visions from an angel called Moroni, who informed him that golden plates, with lost scripture, were located in a hill side in…… upstate New York. I suppose it makes a change from illiterate people from warring tribes in the Middle East claiming a monopoly on truth. He then transcribed the writing from reformed Egyptian, to English and published the book of Mormon in 1830. The golden plates were left in the hillside, by a lost tribe of Israel, who traveled to America, and are the ancestors of Native Americans.

    On the surface of it, the story is pure lunacy. Underneath the surface, pure lunacy becomes a massive understatement. It is shear insanity. The trustworthiness of Joseph Smith is definitely worth investigating further. So here you go.

    Joseph Smith did not allow anyone else to see the golden tablets, because apparently they’d instantly drop dead if they laid eyes upon them. Only he was allowed to see them. He allowed several “witnesses” to feel the heavy box they sat in, but never to see the plates themselves. Because Smith was illiterate, he had scribes to write down as he translated. He put a sheet between himself and the scribe, so the scribe could never see the plates. One of his scribes, Martin Harris, had mortgaged his home and moved in with Smith to help him transcribe the text. Martin Harris’ wife took exception to this, and stole the transcribed texts and told Joseph, that if he truly had the plates, he’d be able to reproduce them word for word. Cunningly, and conveniently, Smith told her that he had another revelation, in which he was told he would not have to reproduce the original plates because they might now be tainted by the devil. He was then apparently given new plates, with similar transcription; just not word for word.

    The way Smith transcribed the text on the plates, seems to render them useless. According to David Whitmer (one of the three original ‘witnesses’, though his witness testimony differs every time he was asked about it) this is how Smith transcribed the texts:

    I will now give you a description of the manner in which the Book of Mormon was translated. Joseph Smith would put the seer stone into a hat, and put his face in the hat, drawing it closely around his face to exclude the light; and in the darkness the spiritual light would shine. A piece of something resembling parchment would appear, and on that appeared the writing. One character at a time would appear, and under it was the interpretation in English. Brother Joseph would read off the English to Oliver Cowdery, who was his principal scribe, and when it was written down and repeated to Brother Joseph to see if it was correct, then it would disappear, and another character with the interpretation would appear.

    - You read it right. Joseph Smith would put a hat on his face, and look at a stone, in darkness. Is no one questioning this nonsense? Why on Earth would Smith need the plates? He isn’t reading from the plates. He’s reading from an illuminated stone in a hat. The plates are pointless. It isn’t like he needs them to prove their authenticity to other people, given that no one else is allowed to see them. And wouldn’t the hat need to be substantially deep, for Smith to be able to focus on it fully? If I put an egg sized stone in a hat from around that time period, and put my face in it so as to completely black out the light, I am pretty sure I wouldn’t be able to focus on the stone for the hours needed to translate hundreds of thousands of words. I’m guessing the hat must have been huge.

    Whitmer goes on to say:

    The characters I speak of are the engravings on the golden plates from which the book was translated. They were engraved thereon by the hand of a holy prophet of God whose name was Mormon, who lived upon this land four hundred years after Christ. Mormon’s son, Moroni, after witnessing the destruction of his brethren, the Nephites, who were a white race — they being destroyed by the Lamanites (ancestors of Indians) — deposited the golden plates in the ground, according to a command of God. An angel of the Lord directed Brother Joseph to them. The language of the Nephites is called the reformed Egyptian language.

    - So, according to Mormonism, Nephites were ancestors of Native American Indians. According to the book, Nephites themselves were descended from a man named Nephi, who happened to leave Jerusalem around 600AD and landed in America. The Nephites were God’s favourite race in America (having white skin) whilst the dark skinned Lamanites – cursed with dark skin, by God – were the hated foes, also descended from the Middle East. Lovely little racist story, with no ounce of truth whatsoever. We know for a fact through modern DNA analysis, that the Native American population had absolutely no genetic relationship to the Middle East at all. The genetic work of Cavalli-Sforza tells us beyond doubt, that Native American Indians have distinct DNA, that is most similar (if we are comparing) to people living in the Altai Mountain range in the middle of Asia (Mongolia, Russia). It confirms what science already knew; people migrated from the area around the Altai Mountains in Asia to America, around 16,000 years ago. It is clear; there is no Hebrew blood in pre-Colombian America.

    One of the big mistakes in the Book of Mormon, is that it supposedly originates from the 6th century, yet its English (given from God in Joseph Smith’s hat) is eerily familiar to that of the King James Bible, which became available in 1611; 1000 years after the writing of the book. The problem here is that the King James Bible, that the Book of Mormon quotes, has a few errors, that then found their way into the Book of Mormon. God appears to have made the exact same mistake twice. Isiah 9:1 uses the word “honour”. The translation here from original hebrew is wrong, as has been proven since. The phrase should be “grievously afflict”. The mistake can also be found in the Book of Mormon. It would seem to even the least skeptic of minds, that Joseph Smith merely copied passages from a Bible that was freely available at the time, full of errors that were not to be corrected for decades.
  2. US election 2012: Richard Dawkins calls Mitt Romney 'gullible fool' over Mormon faith

    by Raf Sanchez posted on September 10, 2012 01:40AM GMT

    Richard Dawkins on Sunday accused Mitt Romney of being a "massively gullible fool" as he launched into a furious tirade against the Republican's Mormon faith.

    Britain's most prominent atheist attacked the core tenets of Mr Romney's religion, saying that the Church of Latter Day Saints' founding prophet was "a fraud" and that the presidential contender was "too stupid to see it".

    "No matter how much you agree with Romney's economic policy, can you really vote for such a massively gullible fool?" asked Prof Dawkins during an outburst on Twitter that lasted several hours.

    The Oxford academic focused his criticism on the Church's belief that its founder, Joseph Smith, was visited by an angel in 1820s New York, who guided him to a set of golden plates buried in a hill.

    Smith claimed to have translated runes engraved on the plates, and compiled them into the Book of Mormon. The text describes how Jesus Christ appeared in the United States after the Crucifixion and how Adam and Eve went to the site of present-day Missouri after being expelled from the Garden of Eden.

    Prof Dawkins said Smith was a "19th century charlatan" and that the Book's text appeared to be written in a falsified ancient tone, unlike the Bible and Koran which were "written in the language of their time".
  3. Is there something about the separation of church and state you don't understand? And if you're going to question Romney's critical thinking ability, then you must question Obama's as well. He too prays to that "Sky Daddy" who you loathe so much.
  4. Harry Reid is a Mormon.

    The Bible says judge men by the fruits of their actions. From what i can see, Romney has led an exemplary life. I know a few Mormons and you would be very lucky to have any of them working for you or living next door.
  5. Obama said in his book that his father came to him in a dream and spoke and inspired him. What do you think about that? Was it a vision too?
  6. Lucrum


    This sums up not so free thinker pretty well. HYPOCRITE.
  7. Brass


    Did you miss the "dream" part? Must be tough sledding, going through life with little more than a brain stem. Fortunately for you, there are several like-stemmed others here to feel and share your pain.
  8. Gotta agree, the original Jesus story is just as crazy as the Mormon Jesus story. It's just that it's been around so long people accept it and don't see the crazy involved in believing such nonsense.
  9. Brass


    There goes that cognition thing again. You really ought to get it checked. All religions with supernatural origins are false by definition, but the more recent ones are that much easier to falsify due to the very recency of their origins (i.e., mormonism, scientology). Therefore, their proponents are that much more daft, all else being equal. Perhaps Romney should have picked Tom Cruise as his running mate.
  10. Lucrum


    You're beloved messiah Odumbo PRAYS, your fellow liberal Harry Reid is a MORMON.

    I guess in your haste to respond you missed that part, huh.
    #10     Sep 10, 2012