the mathematics of persistence

Discussion in 'Psychology' started by darkhorse, Nov 26, 2005.

  1. ybfjax

    ybfjax

    Life is an eternal now. But we want to conceptualize everything we perceive in order to give it meaning in our minds.

    I have one better. The Voice of Knowledge by Don Miguel Ruiz. Also the 4 agreements. The Voice of Knowledge discusses in depth how our attention has been hooked by the adults around us, and how we chase a image of perfection instead of developing our own full potential. We can also unhook ourselves from that virtual reality and create a new reality, if we choose to.

    By always doing your best, you avoid judging or justifying the behavior and take action. Many people instead choose to make assumptions, and avoid taking the action for the fear of loss. I guess that just makes more for those of us who have been able to recover our awareness.
     
    #41     Nov 10, 2010
  2. nitro

    nitro

    I don't know why I didn't post this at the time when I posted my response above, but the Langlands Program is also an example of this:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langlands_program

    It is broader than that article gives a feel for. It is an ambitious unification of all of mathematics. The tool that has made it possible is Category Theory, which is essentially what the OP posted in the realm of mathematics:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_theory

    [​IMG]

    Structuralism is the name given to it in Philosophy and the Arts:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structuralism
     
    #42     Nov 10, 2010
  3. dont

    dont


    I always think that the world progresses , "because" of some people and "in spite" of others.

    Adolf Hitler would be an "in spite of"
    Countless nameless and famous people fall into the "because of" camp.

    I try as far as I able to be a "because of", which leads me to try as often as possible to approach things as your second option suggests.
     
    #43     Nov 11, 2010
  4. This thread and the associated attachments are a very good read for anyone. It covers about five years and includes "Popular Science" to some math considerations.

    In retrospect, I feel very lucky. And I've aways enjoyed the criticism and shots people have taken at the content of my posts. Personal jibes are just humor to me.

    As you all saw, there were two paths to get from X to Z. Obviously, this engenders the fear, anxiety and anger the last five years have provided for most posters who have a 5 year duration of posting; they are the "I'd rather be right than rich" crowd as we all know.

    Today, I had a luxurious experience. I got to see a group of people get from one side of the line in the sand to another. It was the line called "freakout".

    It is also the line that makes the illustration of going from X to Z two different ways, complete instead of incomeplete as it is shown.

    In ET, "freakout" is that very comon experience of starting on the correct side of the market anf then getting on the wrong side and staying on the wrong side change after change of sentiment. It is called repeated whipsaw.

    My first post of a "print" was called photoshopping. It was antiwhipsaw to an extreme and that meant the print could not be true or valid. Google Nitro for this judgement on his part.

    What is it like for aperson to finally once and for all eliminate the possibility of whipsaw or repeated whipsaw?

    What is the drill down on the ingredients in that person's mind. what is it that capitivates his attention, at long last (or even at short last for a purposeful beginner)? Who cares?

    All of these ingreients are long published and very precise and complete.

    The point is, that people cannot get from here to there.

    Look at point Y if you have the balls or guts to deal with point Y.

    Everyone knows the the illustration is NOT functional. No, they don't. NOT at all.

    This is not going to change for people. We are going to have a population that gets whiplashed to the day they die.

    Along the path of observing others for 53 years, it becomes quite clear that most people would rather than be right than rixh.

    One of the greatest trips in the world is to become fully differentiated in a field of endeavor. It is such a luxurious experience to see people step across a line in the sand from one side to the other.

    How does that luxury come to be.

    One post in this thread points it out. Four words.

    "....knowing that you know....."

    The test is simple. Here is the formula:

    Sense (10%) + Inference(90%) + Perception (100%).

    The mind has long term memory. When a one to one correspondence always exists for sense and inference, in trading then "differentiation" of the mind has occurred.

    What would it take for a person to know that he knows, finite math is the only basis for systematic trading?

    how could any posted in this thread, over the five years, get to that phrase: "finite math is the only basis for systematic trading".
     
    #44     Nov 12, 2010
  5. Neither of those statements is correct, didn't bother with the rest of the article.
     
    #45     Nov 12, 2010
  6. ybfjax

    ybfjax

    When John Travolta said in the movie Swordfish: Houdini was able to make an elephant disappear in a room filled with people. How did he do this? Mis-direction.

    When you realize that the opinions of others are irrelevant to fundamental market truths. The masses lose sight of the fundamentals mainly by chasing holy grail indicators (or special settings of existing popular indicators), and more deadly seeking acceptance that their interpretation of the market is correct. What may be 100% true for one person may not necessarily be true for you. You cannot teach awareness. At best, you can provide tools that will assist in recovering one's own awareness. Many secret societies attempt to do just that.

    The more complex math skills you have will obviously allow for more sophisticated applications, but the basic/fundamental arithmetic maths is all one needs for a complete systematic trading system. Math is a fundamental approach to explaining what we perceive in logical terms without all the filler interpretation (knowledge). In other words, "Why" is irrelevant. The fact that life (and the markets) just "is" right now, is what is important. Then, we can take action on the price movements and through practice profit from it.

    Perhaps I could elaborate on what the OP probably meant. When we come out the womb, we are completely wild, just like the rest of the mammals. We all start out relatively in the same condition. It is true that we have instincts (silent knowledge or from inside of us projected outward), but the OP was probably referring to learned knowledge (what is taken in from the outside world and stored in our memories for later recall). Until we invest our attention in abstract concepts (other peoples opinions, or our own opinions) at about 4-6 years old.

    We learned to walk, master english, and just about anything we became good at through repetition. Repetition makes the master. Taking action, is what makes the difference. From my observation, many people spend way too much time on the concepts and very little time taking action. Taking action escapes most people because we have so many false images appearing real (fear) based on concepts, we do everything we can to take the action.

    If we do somehow manage to overcome our fears and take action, if it doesn't work out in our favor the first or second time, it almost confirms what our original fear was telling us, so that makes us avoid the action even more the next time.

    What is so interesting is that you don't have to be "original" in order to do well. Copy another successful model if you see it works well for you also. The key is taking action, and practicing your [trading] art until it becomes a mastery.

    Everyone is born with an [empty mind] and no [learned] skill. Or more simply put, everyone starts out fresh out of the womb.
     
    #46     Nov 13, 2010
  7. Your post is interesting.

    In trading, the spectrum of successful methods is quite broad. The spectrum would use criteria for positioning the approaches along the spectrum.

    For me, I have observed that fifth graders on up can trade successfully.

    There may be some common characterisitcs of successful trading approaches. This is not too useful, however.

    Clearly, you make the point that common human growth involves either or both, nature and/or nurture.

    Trader growth is the same for most approaches.

    Comparing successful growth and successful failure can be based upon the factors you introduced above.

    To make a comparison, probably the best thing to do is list the milestones and determine what happens to each type of learner. The same path of milestones is generally followed and a person growing successful is very different than a person learning repeated failure.

    Probably for ET, we should not consider milestones beyond what you see as the necessary math compliment for success.

    I see the growth of traders as levels of knowledge and skills. I see six.

    The forte of nature is the survival aspect of trading. The forte of nurture is, as you point out: action and repetition.

    For me, I have noticed, the parallel of secret societies and learning to trade. Secret societies know that participants follow the same discovery process. You point out "truths of markets" are invariant intellectually and factually speaking. Secret societies also focus on inherent truths regarding their sphere of activity.

    Potential traders get to find and view the "truths of markets" one way or another. In doing so they do figure out that Arithmetic is all that is involved; you pointed that out.

    The observer lowest level of trader, in my opinion, is a person who, as yet, has not taken any action nor has he done any repetitions for learning purposes.

    Behavioral action is a matter of doing choosing (making choices that lead to behavioral change). Early schooling does depend, largely upon doing repetitions. these nurturing drills inculcate the manner in which the coefficients of the power series base 10 ooperate reliably to produce long term memory truths about nimber symbols. Addition, subtraction, multiplication and division are created as inference in the mind. When "things" are sensed, the inference is added and the sum is called perception.

    Children are schooled . Potential traders can either be schooled or self taught.

    In my world, traders I have been exposed to follow a single path of development for success and for failure.

    Brginner level might be defined as using the pieces that are discovered to act and do a skill set that invokes repeating either success or failure. You do what is called OODA in the Conventional Wisdom of trading. (See John Boyd). I do MADA as a parallel to doing science.

    In Arithimetic, you use sums and division for trading. Answers are compared using division. Action and repeating the action creates memory of how the bottom line is being created.

    I use a Montessori approach in trading. Bars are sticks and I compare sticks.

    Looking at the market as though sticks are like letters and letters form words and words are formed in to complete thoughts (sentences) is where we parted company.

    Montessori sticks only form 2 stick words. the entire dictionary has but ten words. They subdivide into but two parts of speech.

    I can state the whole set of "truths about markets" with this vocabulary.

    At what age does a Montessori trained student have arithmetic under his belt? The same age as you got arithmetic under your belt by knowing two tables and the rules for the coeeficients of a power series.

    You have three ways of proving that any base raised to the zero power gives the same "truth".

    Arithmetic is all that is needed to understand the power of compounding profits.

    As you point out most elementary teachers do not know the "why" of arithmetic or anything. raders may not know the "why" either. They learn by taking action and repeating actions that "work" to create memory in their minds.

    We have reached a mellow point and we are at beginner level. I see this place as the "foundation". Further, I see that to go to advanced beginner, then intermediate then advanced intermediate, then expert and fianally advanced expert means using the mind to assemble building blocks and put them on the foundation.

    To get to action, I feel MADA is involved: Monitoring, analysis, decision making and action. You monitor and bet (using arithmetic) and do repetitions and long term memory is built so recall is present for succeeding in trading.

    Looking at a pair of sticks over and over is how long term memory is built to have a full vocabulary of the ten combinations of two sticks. the action is to decide to look at sicks in pairs. The repetition is to get to have a long term memory and connect the pairs to the "truths of the market".

    A few simple milestones come up for the learner.

    One branch point is called whipsaw. The other side of the coin is antiwhipsaw. the learner chooses which he will be using as he takes action and does repetitions to establish long term memory.

    Another milestone is choosing to use retrace/reversal or not have tht capability and sit out those moments when rtrace reversal begins.

    For simplicity, I'll group these into the advanced beginner set of skills and knowledge. One thing is for sure, handling these milestones like driving a car is what a trader does as he acquires the required long term memory.

    The thing that is common to learners of success or learners of failure is that they go through applying learning o create long term memory.

    My view is that the process is better done using logic as espoused by Keynes and Carnap (with Montessori sticks) rather than the betting of OODA or Rev. Thomas in an arithmetic context. Neither are the entertainment (non action, non repetition) of the non example of what someone said in a movie about a magician.

    Finite math appears to the observer and the beginner. It is not reasonable to ask why these observations and how they are the context of the truths of the markets can be laid aside. It is a "why" so it is not reasonable to ask.
     
    #47     Nov 13, 2010
  8. ybfjax

    ybfjax

    Your reply was equally more stimulating.

    I use the 4 Agreements model based on the Toltec wisdom of Don Miguel Ruiz. I recommend the audio version, so that you can listen to it anytime in the car, mp3 player, etc. We tend to lay down printed matter for a long time and not read it. They are:

    1) Be impeccable with your word - You never use the power of the word against yourself when writing your life story. The word, which are essentially symbols that we use as a means of communication. You will use this word to describe market action/reaction, your trading plan, your views on other traders, etc. You create a whole trading [virtual] reality for yourself based on your word.

    When you use the word against yourself, this eventually leads to self-destruction and death. In trading terms, this is account wipeout or unplanned drawdown. We mastered this type of self rejection mainly as children when we accumulated fear of money when were taught the poverty/scarcity model of how society works. [i don't want to elaborate too much on that, but what's important is the awareness of this sickness]

    2) Don't Take Anything Personally - Whatever happens in the markets has nothing to do with you and everything to do with the market. When you take anything personally, you make several assumptions, one of which is that the market somehow targeted your stop loss specifically. Or perhaps you the market somehow owed you x amount of pips. Taking things personally usually comes from a poverty mindset, or a scarcity model that there is not enough to go around for everyone. So when you don't get what you thought you should have, you want to get revenge and get even. Only to find out that you will misuse the word even more, resulting in further losses.

    By not taking anything personally, it frees you from being stuck on a past trade, and you can move on to the next opportunity which is happening right now.

    3) Don't Make Assumptions - The human mind has a tendency to want to justify everything it perceives. When we don't know something, we make assumptions to fulfill our desire to explain everything. The main problem with assumptions is that most assumptions are not true at all. We make assumptions about how the market should be, not what is happening now in front of our eyes. Perhaps we assume that a trend that was true an hour ago will remain true. And then it begins a snowball effect. Because then we make the assumption that other people agree with our assumptions or have made similar assumptions. So we defend our assumptions and try to make other people (including the market) WRONG. We make assumptions, leading to misunderstandings, which in turn makes us take it personally and create a whole drama that gets nothing accomplished.
    One powerful method we can use to stop the mind from making assumptions is to ask questions that may shed some light on the truth. Having the courage to ask questions does not guarantee that we will get the answer we want to hear, but it's a start. What fits each individuals mind may be different, but something as simple as "What is something that you [market] do all the time?

    From my point of view, there's no need to make assumptions in financial markets. Unlike most businesses, including gambling like blackjack or poker, you have many transparent tools at your disposal: A real-time price feed, historical data, and even demo accounts for you to test your strategies. You can also create a spreadsheet to run some numbers as you practice.

    The entire war of control that exists in our relationships with the markets, our brokers, personal relationships, all the way up to relationships between entire countries is rooted in making assumptions, and then taking them personally.

    4) Always Do Your Best - Awareness is nothing but a concept without taking action. When you take action, there is no room anymore for assumptions because now you see in real-time what is happening, not just what you wanted to see in your mind. Doing your best keeps you busy towards the end goal and prevents self-judgements. If you do less than your best, you judge yourself as guilty and will always wish you could have done more. At the same time, if you over-do, then you will be exhausted, and then it takes you longer to accomplish the original goal. All you can do is your best at any given moment. So why take it personally? But there is always a next moment, to analyze your results honestly, to ask questions about uncertainties, and tweak until you get the desired results. There's no time to blame yourself or others, because your are continuously taking advantage of the next opportunity that comes along. This is the practice that makes the master.

    In a way automated trading attempts to silence the mind from making assumptions by having a robot trade the same strategy consistently without intervention. On the flip side, the strategy implemented in the automated algorithm still has to be based on fundamental truths in order to be valid. Or put another way, it must have a basis in reality and still be profitable for it to remain automated. But by consistently making the same trades, even if they are incorrect can allow you to easily spot deficiencies and correct them.

    Emotions are not bad. I know I will catch flack for this, but emotions in and of themselves are not what ruin traders. Your gut feeling or your heart telling you to stay or get out is quite objective. But when your mind (fear) makes you second, third, twenty-th guess your decision, that is what drives you to the mad house.

    The goal is to increase your awareness to the point where you never use the word against yourself. Without awareness, there is not much you can do. You'll just keep making losing trades, wiping out, and usually blame the market or yourself for losing again. If we recover our awareness, then we can choose a new trading plan, even if that means stop trading altogether.

    "Coincidentally", the OODA model was popularized by a USAF retired officer. The 4 agreements was awarded its book cover emblem on a USAF challenge coin.

    From a mathematical and physics perspective, beyond the arithmetic i've incorporated Gabriel Oyibo's Grand Unified Theorem (GAGUT) into my thinking as well. He was able to unify all of the forces of the universe, something Einstein was searching for but died before finding it.

    Between the toltec wisdom and Ancient African wisdom of Oyibo, I have more than enough tools to switch readily from the realm of relativity, where so many people find themselves seeming hopelessly "stuck" to the absolute realm, where we mainly take an observatory stance.

    To summarize,
    4 agreements in action > Increase/Master Awareness > Recover power to choose/re-create our present reality > Pick the best course of action that suits the present situation [Mastery of Transformation] > 4 agreements in action, etc several cycles until you love yourself so much that the trades that are benefiting you far outweigh the losing trades.
    Alternatively, you may have discovered trading is not for you. [Mastery of Love]

    I don't know if the above would be categorized as the "common characteristics" or just another systematic approach (when combined with my previous posts). From my point of view, i use those steps above and they never steer me in the wrong direction. Particularly the self-judgement that occurs when you have losing trades or account wipeout on a smaller account. Especially when the rent is due.


    OPPORTUNITYISNOWHERE


    Wow, I have Jack Hershey complementing me. Maybe ProfLogic will find his way here also.

    But regardless of the praise or criticisms, we must all know own own truths and intend a new beginning each trade cycle. Sorry if I was so long winded. But I wasn't going to throw away the text i typed after the fact. I spent all day typing it, and if it came to my mind
     
    #48     Nov 14, 2010
  9. bulls. and here's the reason why http://media.wiley.com/product_data/excerpt/67/04700386/0470038667.pdf
     
    #49     Nov 14, 2010
  10. ybfjax

    ybfjax

    On the contrary. He only confirms what i've been saying. Particularly doing your best. Taking things personally doesn't necessarily mean that you never have outward reactions.

    The trader who got angry when he made loses appeared to take it personally on the outside, but the truth is that he did not take it personally. He expressed anger at times, but channelled his anger and made it into fuel learned from his mistakes, continued to practice his art. Looks like he mastered his trading art quite well, as he learnt to release his emotions at the right moment and to his benefit. That is why warriors and masters are impeccable.

    I'm not sure if you read my post in its entirety. But nevertheless, the article does an excellent job of confirming the OP and what most of the other posters, including myself have added.
     
    #50     Nov 14, 2010