I am pro-choice (although I don't really care about this whole pro-choice/pro-life debate) but I don't understand the relevance of this issue during a discussion between libertarians who believe in women's right to choose and progressives/liberals who also believe in women's right to choose.
This is chit chat where we can say anything, but the reason I asked is because you seemed to be very upset by all the injustices in the world which you seemed to be attributing to liberty. So, I just naturally wondered if you thought killing an unborn baby was one of these injustices.
I actually like a majority of the libertarian views, and I'm interested enough that I'm one of the few people I know that watches the 3rd party debates. But I will have to agree with some of the points on this thread. Libertarians need to be more specific in the actions they condone. Making some vague statement about people having the freedom to make choices in their own self-interest isn't going to cut it. I think they have a great policy regarding tax and business. They need to have an opinion about the moral issues that face the country now. I'm not suggesting that they need to become an active voice in the various movements. But when it comes time to run for office, they must come to a party consensus. During the last Pres. election I was watching the 3rd party debates. When discussing national debt, war, fiscal/monetary policy, etc I liked everything the libertarian had to say. Then we got to gay rights, abortion, etc. and the libertarian sounded like a broken record that was completely ignorant to current events/issues. "Our stance is that people should have the liberty to control their own actions." This makes it sound like they want to have no government regulation on many personal actions that we as a society consider harmful to the wellbeing of the majority population. I wanted to yell at the screen, "Come on man, form an opinion and make a statement so you don't look like an ignorant fool"! I imagine they will have an increasingly tough time fielding questions regarding legal/illegal immigration during the next presidential debate. That said, if they as a party could form more of a cohesive unit, I do think they have the best shot (although still not a very good one) at breaking up the stupid two-party system that we have currently.
How many times have you seen me advocate for a woman's right to choose, freedom of religion, or gay rights & equality? I don't directly need <b>any</b> of those things for myself.
The media gives the LP zero airtime. The media exposure is so bad that I believe even a big <b>negative</b> story about the Libertarian party would help- just like how Koran sales skyrocketted after 9/11. Maybe Badnarik & Browne should ejaculate all over Cheney's face or something. Hell, it probably couldn't hurt.
This may come as a shock, but I pay much less attention to what the folks say around here, as they seem to pay to what I say.... Funny how that works, eh? LOL...what a scream...
That's not at all true, Beetlebrow. Since you have to have the last word, you're forced to pay 100% attention to what people say.
These things don't cease to exist just because you pass laws suppressing them. Also, why is it just about what you want? Other people may want something different. Libertarianism is about letting people make up their own mind -- as opposed to being told what is permissible by Mr. dddooo.
These things don't cease to exist just because you pass laws suppressing them. Sure they do, most of the things I mentioned above have actually ceased to exist or at least have been significantly minimized once laws banning those activities were passed. Also, why is it just about what you want? Other people may want something different. Libertarianism is about letting people make up their own mind -- as opposed to being told what is permissible by Mr. dddooo. But that's exactly the point, an overwhelming majority of people in this country (and the world) don't want the kind of liberties that I listed above, people don't want to live in a utopian "libertarian world of liberty". That's exactly why we have these laws and the goverment to enforce them, that's also why the libertarian party consistently gets whopping 2-3% of the vote...and is extemely unlikely to ever get more than that. PS Why don't you libertarians buy an island somewhere? That would be fun to watch how you're ripping each other off 24 hours a day 7 days a week, how you discriminate against each other because you can, how your planes crash regularly because it's "cheaper" for your airlines than proper maintenance , how your kids drink contaminated water, how in two years 1% of your population will end up owning 99% of the wealth and the rest of you poor suckers will work for food and shelter because the CEOs of your 5 monopolies [legally] collude not to pay you a penny more and you don't believe in unions. You'll be begging to come back to the old USA with all its 'restrictive' labor, environmental and anti-trust laws.