The Iraq "Civil War" -

lol, so because most Iraqis are tired war, its just going to end

Most American's are tired of war, aren't they, but we are still going at it while our government is beating the war drums for another war.

 

BTw sam 123, given most footage of "unlawful combatant" activities are recorded by militant forces, as they have been doing since at least 1987, and distributed via standard media networks, would you mind explaining how they were "staged" exactly?
They recorded them, for the express purpose of SHOWING what they did, rather than, for example, shutting down media footage of the military strike now known as the "road of death" in iraq, a massacre of some proportions, or "imbedded journalists" or something.

War sucks, but it doesn't explain your lacksadaisical response here, and i think its offensive, you dont support the troops.
What the heck are you talking about?

By all means, answer my first question, so that reasonable people can see the definitive guidelines of your veiwpoint as to what constitutes civil war, etc.

 

The invasion of Iraq was a limited engagement. And a lot of people from all sides have been critical of Rumsfeld for not sending in a lot more troops in the beginning as per the Pentagon’s suggestion.

I mentioned the American Civil War, and you can count a lot of civil wars in Africa, like Liberia and Rwanda. A civil war has to begin with events that spark a chain reaction across the country, which tears up the political landscape and leads to a situation of two or more organized factions in conflict –bringing the entire country down with them. You can have a hot conflict where a high percentage of civilians are killed and everything is destroyed. You may also have several years of “cold conflict” where factions are militarized and stake out their geographies and hunker down leading to no political solution for several years and even decades.

In Iraq, there hasn’t been any runaway cascade of events leading to spontaneous fighting all over Iraq between Shiites and Sunnies to the point that it tears up the new government. In fact, the leaders of both religious sects in Iraq’s new government have been condemning the attacks.

The real issue here is the prejudice coming from our cultural elite. They see Iraq’s government as a bogus Western invention ready to implode as soon as someone sneezes. So, to them, when the Shiite mosque blows up, that should suffice to send Iraq into a civil war. I’m saying this is false because more Iraqis want a political solution than a fight, and many more are trying to make things work and are capable of making things work.

The other prejudice is the illusion that Iraqis are unskilled and uneducated and controlled by their religious and ethnic passions, let alone unable to form any democratic government and economic system. After all, left-leaning thinkers (90% of our cultural elite) believe that most people are too stupid and unable to control any aspect of their lives.

I’m not saying that it’s impossible for Iraq to degenerate into a civil war. The bad apple can spoil the bunch. It is always possible, but it will take a lot more than a mosque blowing up and a few dozen people murdered. Another thing that we overlooked is the fact that America will probably send in more troops if things get worse, anyway.

Technically, yes. A family fight is a civil war; family members take sides and fight.

 

Yes, war sucks, but you obviously misunderstood what I said. I was not referring to our military videotaping its activities. I was referring to our enemies staging their planned slaughter of Shiites, filming it, and distributing the images throughout Iraq and the Muslim world to stir up enough sectarian anger. They hope it will cause the cascade of violence in Iraq that can lead to a civil war. Since they know they have the Western media establishment in their pockets (because they are always eager to over-report anything wrong going on in Iraq,) the Islamists believe their persistent efforts in Iraq will make America want to cut and run.

It’s obvious what the well-funded and well-organized totalitarian Islamist movement (and Syria’s Baathists) are trying to do in Iraq, even the Iraqis themselves. Yet, our very own cultural elite that “educates” us and informs us on world events still believes this is some sort of popular spontaneous grass-roots sectarian uprising in Iraq. –All because they believe the coalition and the Iraq’s best and brightest are too incompetent and Iraq is in utter chaos as a result.

Having said all of this, I admit that the jury is still out on who will win: our efforts and goals in Iraq, a Sunni totalitarian Islamist regime, an Iranian theocracy, or a new Baathist Arab dictatorship. After all, this is a war, and with it uncertainty. But to have a cultural elite that puts on the spoilers on every thing its own country tries to do reveals their prejudice. They still cannot see beyond the Watergate years.

 

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March 16, 2006

SouthAmerica: I was surprised to see on last night’s broadcast of “Nightline” the results of a recent American attack in Iraq. They attacked a group of houses and they managed to kill a number of women and kids - The US took pre-emptive action against these kids, and one of them was only 6 months old. (The rational for these attacks are twofold – 1) These are the kinds of battles that the US can handle usually with no problems – there is very little a 6 months old kid can do about it. 2) It is pre-emptive because in another 15 to 20 years these kids might grow up to become terrorists according to today’s Washington’s way of thinking.)

The United States is getting so desperate because the Civil War is completely out of control in Iraq – that some knucklehead decided maybe if we take 50 helicopters and 1,500 soldiers and bomb a hell of some place – that will show to the American people that we are doing something (bombing something, anything) to give the impression that we are intimidating the various sects who are involved in the Iraq Civil War.

This is a new American way to stop the carnage in Iraq – kill lots of people including women and kids – show to them who is boss.

Maybe after they destroy a few more cities in Iraq – the people in Iraq will come out and accept that government that the US is trying to impose on the Iraqi people. Democracy by gun fire – or you accept the government that the US is trying to shove down your throat or we will bomb a hell of your towns until you get the point.

The US government want the American people to think that the US is fighting a regular war in Iraq – but the insurgents knows better – they are fighting a guerrilla type of war – now you see it – now you don’t.

The Iraqis and the US are fighting on different wars – the US army is fighting based on a strategy to try to help US public opinion at home. The insurgency has been fighting a guerrilla war for a long time that has turned into ethnic cleansing between the religious factions – and they are in the middle of a nasty civil war in Iraq.

Must be very confusing in Iraq today – for the Iraq people – you have a civil war going on and suddenly one of the factions gets attacked by a clueless occupation force trying to score some points at home by bombing somebody – anybody – Who knows?

I wonder what they are going to show on television tonight and it will be interesting to hear what those knuckleheads are going to say that they accomplished with today’s bombings of God knows what in Iraq.

The American public enjoys a good bombing of something – anything will make them happy and few as a superpower - as long there is a lot of fireworks to give the impression that the US knows what they are doing in Iraq and they are punishing some group for something – wherever.



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U.S., Iraqis Launch 'Operation Swarmer'
AP – Associated Press – March 16, 2006


BAGHDAD, Iraq - U.S. forces, joined by Iraqi troops, on Thursday launched the largest air assault since the U.S.-led invasion in 2003, targeting insurgent strongholds north of the capital, the military said. The U.S. military said the offensive dubbed Operation Swarmer was aimed at clearing "a suspected insurgent operating area" northeast of Samarra and was expected to continue over several days.

"More than 1,500 Iraqi and Coalition troops, over 200 tactical vehicles, and more than 50 aircraft participated in the operation," the military statement said.

Samarra, 60 miles north of Baghdad, was the site of a massive bombing against a Shiite shrine on Feb. 22 that touched off sectarian bloodshed that has killed more than 500 and injured hundreds more, threatening to push Iraq into civil war.

It is a key city in Salahuddin province, a major part of the so-called Sunni triangle where insurgents have been active since shortly after the U.S.-led invasion three years ago. Saddam Hussein was captured in the province, not far from its capital and his hometown, Tikrit.

Iraq's interim Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari said the attack had been necessary to prevent insurgents from forming a new stronghold such as they had established in Fallujah, west of Baghdad.

"After Fallujah and some of the operations carried out successfully in the Euphrates and Syrian border many of the insurgents moved to areas nearer to Baghdad," Zebari said on CNN. "They have to be pulled out by the roots."

The assault came as Iraq's new parliament was sworn in Thursday, with parties still deadlocked over the next government, vehicles banned from Baghdad's streets to prevent car bombings and the country under the shadow of a feared civil war.

The long-expected first session, which took place within days of the third anniversary of the U.S.-led invasion, lasted just over 30 minutes and was adjourned indefinitely because the legislature still has no speaker.

Residents in the targeted area said there was a heavy U.S. and Iraqi troop presence in the area and large explosions could be heard in the distance.

It was not clear if the U.S. aircraft had carried out any raids nor were there reports of insurgent resistance….



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BAGHDAD -- Insurgent groups in one of Iraq's most violent provinces claim they have purged the region of three-quarters of al Qaeda's supporters after forming an alliance to force out the foreign fighters.
If true, it would mark a significant victory in the fight against Abu Musab Zarqawi, the head of al Qaeda in Iraq, and could partly explain the considerable drop in suicide bombings in Iraq recently.
"We have killed a number of the Arabs including Saudis, Egyptians, Syrians, Kuwaitis and Jordanians," London Daily Telegraph quoted an insurgent representative in the western province of Anbar as saying.
Iraq's Sunni Muslim insurgents had originally welcomed al Qaeda into the country, seeing it as a powerful ally in its fight against the American occupation. But relations became strained when insurgents supported calls for Sunnis to vote in the Dec. 15 election, a move they saw as essential to break the Shi'ite hold on government, but which al Qaeda viewed as a form of collaboration.
It became an outright split when a wave of bombings killed scores of people in Anbar resulting in a spate of tit-for-tat killings.
In reaction, the Sunni tribal leaders formed their own anti-al Qaeda militia, the Anbar Revolutionaries. The group has a core membership of about 100 people, all of whom had relatives killed by al Qaeda. It is led by Ahmed Ftaikhan, a former Saddam-era military intelligence officer, the Telegraph reported.
The group claims to have killed 20 foreign fighters and 33 Iraqi sympathizers. The United States has confirmed that six of Zarqawi's deputies were killed in the city of Ramadi in the province.
The Associated Press reported yesterday that an Anbar-based group has claimed it killed five top members of al Qaeda and associated groups in Ramadi.
The claim was posted on an Islamist Web site and attributed to the Anbar Revenge Brigade, the AP reported.
It listed the names of four suspected al Qaeda leaders. The fifth man, it said, was from Ansar al-Sunnah, a terrorist group affiliated with al Qaeda.
Iraq, which has suffered under a brutal insurgency for nearly three years, more recently has been racked by sectarian violence after the bombing of a Shi'ite shrine Feb. 22 in Samarra.

 

NICE POST

...Rennick out
Retired US Navy

 

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March 17, 2006

SouthAmerica: American wishful thinking regarding the Iraq civil war.
Here we go again!!!!

The president’s approval rating are reaching an all time low in the US because among other things there is a civil war in Iraq getting completely out of control.

Solution: prepare a propaganda film to be distributed to all major media in the US showing the US and the Iraqis fighting together against any group – just pick anything it does not matter who the army will bomb at this time – it is just for show for the US domestic market to show how we are kicking ass in Iraq.

The ironic many of the Iraqi soldiers who will participate on this staged wherever they are trying to do in Iraq – are part of the new Iraqi army that the US is training by day and many of them are part of the insurgency by night.

This war in Iraq is too confusing to the American army – what they need is to reorganize the Iraqi people for them to be able to identify them – they should require the Sunnis to wear blue color on their headband and the Shiites should wear red color on their headband. The Kurds should wear yellow on their headband and any other group should wear black on their headband.

Sunnis are allowed to go to where they need to go for work and so on – on Mondays, and Thursdays. The Shiites are allowed to go where they need to go on Tuesday and Saturdays. The Kurds are allowed to go where they need to go on Wednesday and Fridays. On Sundays Insurgents and terrorists are allowed to go and try to do their insurgency stuff – by organizing the war in that way that would help Americans to figure out who is who in Iraq.

The US government propaganda machine is in the process of filming some footage of US helicopters and the combination of US/Iraqi army bombing something and trying to give the appearance that they know what they are doing.

To save some money they can use some footage from 3 years ago – Americans and the mainstream media would not know the difference anyway.

The Iraqis who are participating on their private civil war are going to wonder what the Americans are up to? But in no time the news will catch up in Iraq that the current fiasco is just for show on American television – to try to help improve Bush’s approval rating here in the USA.

The rest of the world is watching this American comedy on real time and they must be wondering what the US will come up next as a strategy to help Bush’s approval rating.

In the mean time the Iraqis can continue their civil war and their ethnic cleansing.

Their civil war might be disrupted just a few days by “Operation Propaganda to Improve Approval Ratings” then they can return to an all out civil war and they can continue the massive number of killings.

This new American “Operation Propaganda” also can serve as a reminder to the Iraqi people – to accept the democracy that is being shoved up their throats or the US army will pick a town and will destroy it including women and kids.


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By the way, it is time to pack in and bring the US army home, because it does not matter how much propaganda they try to show on American Television – Iraq is in the middle of a civil war and it does not matter what the US does at this point the civil war it will be settled by the Iraq people on their time table and not on the American clock.

The Iraqis have a lot to settle between the various groups and religious sects before they are ready to let life to go on – and they are the ones that know when they had enough of a civil war and they will settle their differences in time and whoever comes up on top will organize a new government in Iraq – most likely that person will be the new dictator in Iraq. End of the story.

The rest it is just wishful thinking and nothing else.



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March 21, 2006

SouthAmerica: The latest George W. Bush Spin regarding Iraq.

President Bush says he's spending his remaining "political capital" on the war in Iraq.

In the last two days on various speeches according to George w. Bush things are going well in Iraq – it is the mainstream media’s fault that the American people has the perception that Iraq is in the middle of a civil war.

The media should instead of showing all the car bombings and widespread sectarian killings in Iraq – they should concentrate in the propaganda material provided by the Pentagon for media distribution that shows what a great job the US is doing in Iraq.

As George W. Bush and his VP - Dickhead Cheney - goes around the various television channels in the US saying that there is a lot of progress happening in Iraq that is not being reported by the media – the Iraq civil war continues to rage completely out of control.

We know that the American people understand and also most people from around the world – that Iraq is in the middle of a civil war.

As both Bush and Cheney continue to be completely out of touch with what is happening in Iraq – they still in La La Land – On Sunday, March 19, 2006 former Iraqi Prime Minister Lyad Alawi said on a news conference in Iraq that; “Iraq is already in a Civil War” and over 60 people are being killed on a daily basis on this civil war.

One of the Sunday news programs did show the clip of Mr. Alawi saying that Iraq is already in the middle of a civil war.- I believe it was on “Meet the Press” with Tim Russert.

Who the American people will believe – George W. Bush and Dickhead Cheney (The completely clueless) or Mr. Alawi (who can get his ass blown up by an insurgent bomb at any time in Iraq?)

There is no question that Mr. Alawi knows and understands much better the current situation in Iraq than George (The Moron) and his fascist VP.


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March 26, 2006

SouthAmerica: As a gunbattle raged south of Baghdad, Sens. John McCain and Russell Feingold told Iraqi leaders Saturday that American patience was growing thin…

We know you guys are in the middle of a “Civil War” but you should ask for a time out on your civil war because you should form a new government. After the time out you can resume your civil war and all the sectarian killings.

From the American perspective it looks better if you guys have a government in place as you fight your civil war – Maybe two governments in place as you fight your civil war.

OK – all right – 3 governments in place – one for each faction – then you can resume your nasty civil war.

In the United States there is a declining support among the American people for your civil war. Americans are getting frustrated that their army became just a bunch of “Patsies” in Iraq – the American soldiers don’t have a clue what they are doing in the middle of a civil war.

The only advantage the American army has in Iraq - is that they can kill anyone since they don’t have a clue who are their enemies.

Today, the US government is so incompetent that they can't even figure out that Iraq is in the middle of a sectarian civil war.

The American people have started grasping that reality - Iraq is in the middle of a civil war - but Bush, Cheney and many of their generals still thinking that Iraq will have a democracy and that everything will work out well as they planed on their wishful thinking.



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AP – Associated Press – March 26, 2006
“U.S. Losing Patience, Senators Tell Iraqis”
By VANESSA ARRINGTON, Associated Press Writer


BAGHDAD, Iraq - As a gunbattle raged south of Baghdad, Sens. John McCain and Russell Feingold told Iraqi leaders Saturday that American patience was growing thin and they needed to urgently overcome their stalemate and form a national unity government.

It was the second high-level U.S. delegation in less than a week delivering the same stark message to Iraqi politicians as the Bush administration steps up pressure to overcome the political impasse that threatens to scuttle hopes to start an American troop pullout this summer.

"We need very badly to form this unity government as soon as possible," McCain, R-Ariz., said at a news conference after meetings with President Jalal Talabani and Prime Minister Ibrahim al-Jaafari. "We all know the polls show declining support among the American people."

The U.S. delegation also voiced alarm about increasing sectarian violence in Iraq showing itself in the daily count of drive-by shootings, bombings and dumped corpses, victims of execution-style killings in the shadowy Shiite-Sunni settling of scores.

Seven people — most civilians killed in their homes by mortar fire — died and several others were wounded in a gunbattle between forces of the Shiite Mahdi Army militia and Sunni insurgents near Mahmoudiya, about 20 miles south of the capital.

At least 13 other people were killed in scattered violence Saturday and two more bodies were found dumped in the capital, shot in the head with their hands and feet bound.

U.S. Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad, who has patiently shepherded negotiations to form a new government, already was looking beyond that task to the need to cap the sectarian, militia-inspired killing.

"More Iraqis are dying today from the militia violence than from the terrorists," Khalilzad told reporters during a visit to a sports complex refurbished with American aid. "This will be a challenge for the new government — what to do about the militias."

The country's leadership must "overcome the strife that threatens to rip apart Iraq," he said.

Nevertheless, a sixth session of multi-party meetings Saturday failed to overcome the logjam that has snarled formation of a government for more than three months.

Feingold, of Wisconsin and the ranking Democrat in the U.S. delegation joined McCain in pressing for the quick formation of a government, but he spoke bluntly of his concern that the continued presence of American forces was prolonging the conflict.

"It's the reality of a situation like this that when you have a large troop presence that it has the tendency to fuel the insurgency because they can make the incorrect and unfair claim that somehow the United States is here to occupy this country, which of course is not true," Feingold said.

With November's midterm congressional elections drawing nearer and American voters increasingly disenchanted with the Iraq war, the two visits in quick succession by high-powered U.S. politicians signaled deep concern over potential fallout from a lack of progress in Iraq.

"We are very concerned about the sectarian violence that is happening out there and how that erodes not only the confidence of the Iraqi people in this process, but certainly also the confidence of the American people and their commitment to this effort," Sen. John Thune, R-S.D., said.

Talabani, a Kurd, has formed a coalition with Sunni and secular politicians against a second term for al-Jaafari, a move that only deepened the government stalemate more than three months after the Dec. 15 parliamentary elections.

The U.S. politicians met separately with each of the men, as well as the U.S. commander in Iraq, Gen. George Casey.

On Tuesday, a delegation led by Sen. John Warner, the Virginia Republican who is chairman of the Armed Services Committee, delivered the same tough message, saying the uneasiness back home could force U.S. lawmakers to press for a reduction in American troop strength if the government delay were prolonged — regardless of the consequences.

McCain agreed that the damage could be enormous.

Failure in Iraq, he said, would leave "this part of the world in chaos. Not just Iraq, but all of the surrounding countries as well."

In other violence Saturday, according to police:

• A female teacher was killed by Iraqi soldiers as she drove past their convoy in Baghdad.

• A Sunni mosque preacher was killed by gunmen when he stopped to have his car repaired in west Baghdad.

• Gunmen killed a man driving with his family and wounded his two sons in the capital.

• A bomb exploded in a traffic police hut near the Iraqi Finance Ministry in north Baghdad, killing four civilians and wounding five people, including a traffic policeman.

• Gunmen killed three people in the northern city of Mosul.

• A roadside bomb killed two people in Balabroz, 55 miles northeast of Baghdad.

• Drive-by gunmen killed the bodyguard of the head of Basra's Sunni Endowment, the organization that oversees the sect's religious property in the predominantly Shiite southern city.


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