The Iraq "Civil War" -

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by SouthAmerica, Sep 20, 2005.

  1. .

    September 20, 2005

    SouthAmerica: I see many programs and news coverage of the Iraq War on television and the reporters are saying that: the Sunnis are trying to start a civil war in Iraq.

    I don’t know what they mean by: the Sunnis are trying to start a civil war.

    I wonder what is wrong with all these reporters on television. Iraq has been in the middle of a civil war for a long time.

    I have no idea what has to happen in Iraq for the US media to realize that the Civil War has started in Iraq – at some point even the leaders of the US army will realize what is happening around them in Iraq.

    If it looks like a civil war.

    If it feels like a civil war.

    If it smells like a civil war.

    If there are bombings on a daily basis.

    If thousands of people are getting killed by insurgents.

    If they are blowing up everything in sight.

    Here is a clue: It is a “Civil War”.

    When they kill 200 people and injure another 600 in a matter of hours – that is a good “CLUE” that the Iraqi Civil War is already under way.

    If US officials want to do a quick test to see if a civil war is really under way in Iraq – they can test very easily. All they have to do is announce that the US army will not protect the members of the current Iraqi government for a period of a week.

    If at the end of one week there is any member who still alive - from the current members of the Iraqi government - then you know that your efforts are working. But if they are all killed by the insurgency then you know you have a problem - and the country is in the middle of a civil war.

    Why people can’t grasp that there is a very nasty “Civil War” going on in Iraq today.

    You don’t have to be a rocket scientist to grasp that fact.

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  2. You know very well that the administration has to keep things under control.
    They cannot afford to spread panic even if as you said it is evident it is a mess.
    try to wear their shoes for a moment, would you really admit you have allowed civil war to break out, when it is clearly not in your best interest.
    Zarqawi & Co. would be delighted to hear usa admitting its enemy has been able to upset so well the imbalances of power and that it is now in the middle of a full blown confrontation with insurgents.
    usa will never admit that, not even if the feeble constitution collapses and citizens have to stay barricaded in their homes to avoid being blown up by a GI...
    ... and we are not too far away from this scenario.
     
  3. Bitstream:try to wear their shoes for a moment:

    Odor Eaters will never be that good.:mad:
     
  4. I probably would enjoy that, I have a foot fetish.........:p

    burp.
     
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  6. .

    Bitstream: You know very well that the administration has to keep things under control.

    They cannot afford to spread panic even if as you said it is evident it is a mess.

    try to wear their shoes for a moment, would you really admit you have allowed civil war to break out, when it is clearly not in your best interest.

    Zarqawi & Co. would be delighted to hear USA admitting its enemy has been able to upset so well the imbalances of power and that it is now in the middle of a full blown confrontation with insurgents. USA will never admit that, not even if the feeble constitution collapses and citizens have to stay barricaded in their homes to avoid being blown up by a GI. ... and we are not too far away from this scenario.


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    SouthAmerica: The administration is not doing a good job in keeping things under control as you said.

    There is no better way to spread panic around than having 100 bombs exploding everywhere on a daily basis.

    The Americans don’t have to admit that Iraq submerged into a nasty civil war – it is obvious to everybody around the world – never mind to the local Iraqis.

    For how long do you think the Iraqis can as you said: “and citizens have to stay barricaded in their homes to avoid being blown up by a GI…”.

    Did you mean GI or a jihadist?

    Iraq has been in the middle of a civil war and there is nothing that the US can do about it. Spin the news or propaganda is not going to help improve the situation in Iraq.

    But, if the US occupying forces leave the country, then the Iraqis would have the chance to sort out the problems that they have among them. In this case it will take a civil war.

    It does not matter how long it takes for the United States to see the light, but at the end of the day that will be the only viable solution – to leave Iraq and return home.

    I know it takes a long time for the United States government to catch up on things these days. It is like a blind person is leading the world.


    Note:
    Jihad = a holy struggle or striving by a Muslim for a moral or spiritual or political goal



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  7. .

    September 21, 2005

    SouthAmerica: A picture is worth a thousand words. “ Bush the Defeated”

    The "Iraq Civil War" it is getting completely out of control.

    Katrina Hurricane showcase to the world: a crumbling social and structural America.

    No more tax cuts.

    Maybe I should head out of town to my ranch in Texas and take another 2 weeks vacation from all this mess - and before I have to deal with Rita!!!!


    “Bush the Defeated”

    http://discussions.pbs.org/viewtopic.pbs?t=38089


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  8. .

    SouthAmerica: The Iraq Civil War has been going on for a long time now.
    But what will happen when Iraq starts disintegrating?

    I am surprised that the Kurds have not declared their independence as yet.

    How long it will take before the mess in Iraq starts spilling over into other countries in the area?

    In the future the history books will show "The Iraqi Meltdown" as a symbol of the complete incompetence of the Bush administartion in handling US foreign policy and a major turning point to US prestige around the world. The historians will parallel the fast Soviet Union decline in the late 1980's with the American decline after the Iraqi fiasco.

    The British started the mess in the Middle East and the United States was able to make even a bigger mess of that area by 2005.


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    “Saudi Warns Bush Of Iraqi Disintegration”
    Region could be drawn into war, foreign minister fears
    Saudi Arabia's Foreign Minister Prince Saud al-Faisal
    By JOEL BRINKLEY & THE NEW YORK TIMES NEWS SERVICE
    Published on 9/23/2005

    Washington — Prince Saud al-Faisal, the Saudi foreign minister, said Thursday that he has been warning the Bush administration in recent days that Iraq is hurtling toward disintegration, a development that he said could drag the region into war.

    “There is no dynamic now pulling the nation together,” he said in a meeting with reporters at the Saudi Embassy here. “All the dynamics are pulling the country apart.”

    He said he was so concerned that he was carrying this message “to everyone who will listen” in the Bush administration.

    Saud's statements, some of the most pessimistic public comments on Iraq by a Middle East leader in recent months, were in stark contrast to the generally upbeat assessments that the White House and the Pentagon have been offering.

    But in an appearance at the Pentagon on Thursday, President Bush, while once again expressing long-term optimism, warned that the bloodshed in Iraq was likely to increase in the coming weeks.

    “Today, our commanders made it clear,” he said after a meeting on Iraq with senior military officers, “as Iraqis prepare to vote on their constitution in October and elect a permanent government in December, we must be prepared for more violence.”

    U.S. commanders have repeatedly warned that insurgents would try to disrupt the voting, as they did before legislative elections in January.

    Bush said that if the United States left Iraq now, it could turn into a haven for terrorists, as Afghanistan was before the fall of the Taliban. “To leave Iraq now would be to repeat the costly mistakes of the past that led to the attacks of September 11, 2001,” he said.

    Saud, here for meetings with administration officials, blamed several U.S. decisions for the slide toward disintegration, though he did not refer to the Bush administration directly. Primary among them was designating “every Sunni as a Baathist criminal,” he said.

    Saudi Arabia styles itself as the capital and protector of Sunni Islam, and the prince's remarks — at times harsh and at other moments careful — were emblematic of the conflicted Saudi-American relationship.

    A senior administration official, reacting to Saud's remarks, said, “The United States values and respects his view, and we all share a common concern for the future and stability of Iraq.” He declined to be identified, under administration policy.

    Saud, who said he met with Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice last week, said American officials generally responded to his warnings by telling him that the United States successfully carried off the Iraqi elections, and “they say the same things about the constitution” and the broader situation in Iraq now.

    On Thursday, in fact, the senior administration official said, “The forward movement of the political process is the best answer.”

    Saud argued: “But what I am trying do is say that unless something is done to bring Iraqis together, elections alone won't do it. A constitution alone won't do it.”

    Saud, a son of the late King Faisal who has been foreign minister for 30 years, said he sits on a council of Iraq's neighboring countries — Jordan, Syria, Turkey, Iran and Kuwait as well as Saudi Arabia — “and the main worry of all the neighbors” is that the potential disintegration of Iraq into Sunni, Shiite and Kurdish states would “bring other countries in the region into the conflict.”

    Turkey, he noted, has long threatened to send troops into northern Iraq if the Kurds there declared independence.

    He said Iran is sending money and weapons into the Shiite-controlled south of Iraq and would probably step up its involvement should the south become independent. Iran is a Shiite theocracy, and Saudi Arabia has long been wary of its influence in the region.

    “This is a very dangerous situation,” Saud said, “a very threatening situation.”


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  9. .

    January 5, 2006

    SouthAmerica: I wonder when the United States mainstream media will catch up to the reality of what is happening in Iraq and will start referring to that situation as a full scale “Civil War”.

    How many people must have to die per day in Iraq by the attacks from the insurgency for Iraq to qualify to the category of a full scale “Civil War”?

    It is my understanding that there is a “Civil War” under way in Iraq for a long time, but the American mainstream media is playing along with the US government, and they are trying to reduce the impact of this “Civil War” or trying to stop the “Civil War” with propaganda, and make believe staged elections.

    I wonder if the rest of the world it is also naïve as the American people or if the rest of the world recognizes that Iraq is in the middle of a nasty “Civil War”.


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    “Attack Near Shiite Shrine Kills Over 40”
    AP – Associated Press – January 5, 2006


    KARBALA, Iraq - A suicide bomber set off explosives near one of Shiite Islam's holiest shrines Thursday, killing more than 40 people, officials said.

    The attack follows a heavy day of violence Wednesday, when at least 53 people were killed around Iraq, including 32 killed by a suicide bomber at a Shiite funeral east of Baqouba.

    Thursday's blast near the Imam Hussein shrine in central Karbala, 50 miles south of Baghdad, killed 41 and injured 16, said Adel al-Azawi, the deputy director of Karbala's health department. Karbala's governor, Aqeel al-Khazraji, said 44 were killed and 48 injured.

    Television images showed pools of blood and men ferrying the wounded in pushcasts. The bomber appeared to have set off the explosion only about 30 yards from the shrine in a busy pedestrian area surrounded by shops.

    Karbala has been relatively free of violence since December 2004, when seven people were killed and 31 wounded in an attack. In March of that year coordinated attacks from suicide bombers and preset explosions on Karbala's holy sites killed more than 100.



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    SouthAmerica: Today, January 5, 2006 a major newspaper in Brazil is running a similar front page story about the Iraq "Civil War".

    The Brazilian newspaper is reporting that 49 people died in the Karbala attack and 68 people were injured.

    And in the insurgency attack of the prior day they reported that 52 people died and 55 people were injured.

    The Brazilian newspaper is reporting a higher number of deaths and injures for both days than what is being reported by the American press in the United States.



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    Here is a copy of the article published in Brazil on January 5, 2006.


    "Ataque suicida no sul do Iraque mata 49 pessoas"
    A Folha de Sao Paulo - 5 de Janeiro de 2006.

    Um suicida se explodiu nesta quinta-feira em uma rua da cidade iraquiana de Karbala (120 quilômetros ao sul de Bagdá) --que abriga dois dos lugares considerados sagrados para os xiitas--, matando 49 pessoas. Outras 68 ficaram feridas.

    O atentado marca o segundo dia de um aumento brutal da violência no Iraque, e mostra as profundas divisões entre as facções religiosas no país.

    Ontem 52 pessoas morreram e 55 ficaram feridas em múltiplos ataques no Iraque. Na ação mais sangrenta, um suicida se explodiu em meio a um funeral, que ocorria na cidade de Muqdadiyah, na Província de Diyala (90 km ao norte da capital Bagdá). De acordo com a polícia, 36 pessoas morreram e outras 40 ficaram feridas.

    A retomada dos ataques de Karbala marca a interrupção de um período de calma na cidade. Desde dezembro de 2004, não havia registro de atentados terroristas no local.

    Imagens das redes de TV iraquianas mostraram poças de sangue no chão e homens feridos sendo tirados do local às pressas por civis e médicos.

    Segundo a polícia, o suicida detonou cerca de oito quilos de explosivos e várias granadas de mão. O terrorista também trazia pequenas esferas metálicas presas à sua roupa, e uma granada que não explodiu.


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  10. .


    January 6, 2006

    SouthAmerica: There is at least one American General who actually has an understanding of what is happening in Iraq. Today, CNN News mentioned that Lieutenant-General Ricardo Sanchez, the US commander in Iraq until recently, said that: he thinks that Iraq is in the blink of a nasty “Civil War.”

    CNN News was also interviewing “Delusional” Gen. Peter Pace - Pace, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff – and he said: All this killing is being done by terrorists in Iraq.

    It seems to me that this guy does not have a clue about what is happening in Iraq. He calls the insurgents “terrorists” and he does not understand that insurgents in any country don’t like when there is a foreign occupying force inside their country trying to impose some staged election, and some crooked leaders on their country.

    General’s Pace army is fighting terrorists and al Qaeda in Iraq, instead of the insurgency. He does not know that it is almost impossible to win a war against any insurgency inside their country.

    All General Pace can do today is keep smoking wherever he is smoking these days to keep him on his “Delusional” state.


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    “11 U.S. troops killed in Thursday attacks”
    Troops among at least 140 killed in attacks across Iraq
    CNN - Friday, January 6, 2006

    BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Eleven U.S. troops -- eight soldiers and three Marines -- were among about 140 people killed in attacks across Iraq Thursday, military officials said. It was the deadliest day in Iraq in nearly four months.

    A U.S. soldier and a U.S. Marine were killed in a major suicide bombing targeting an Iraqi police recruitment center in Ramadi, the military said Friday. Both were assigned to 2nd Marine Division, II Marine Expeditionary Force.

    Their deaths bring the number of people killed in the Ramadi attack to at least 82, along with about 70 wounded.

    In addition, two U.S. Marines were killed by small arms fire in separate attacks during combat operations in Falluja, the military said. The Marines were assigned to Regimental Combat Team 8, 2nd Marine Division, II Marine Expeditionary Force.

    Also, a roadside bomb killed two Task Force Baghdad soldiers on patrol in the Baghdad area of operations, the military said Friday. That incident was under investigation.

    And five other Task Force Baghdad soldiers died in a separate roadside bombing near Baghdad.

    The names of the soldiers and Marines were withheld pending notification of relatives. Since the war began, 2,193 U.S. troops have died in Iraq.

    Thursday's violence also included a suicide bomb attack in the Shiite holy city of Karbala, where 45 people were killed and 82 wounded, police and hospital officials said. The attacker detonated his explosives near two Shiite shrines, the Imam Hussein and Imam Abbas.

    The area has been closed off and police are investigating, said police spokesman Rahman Mishawi.

    Karbala, about 50 miles (80 kilometers) south of Baghdad, has been relatively free of violence for the past year.

    Asked if the attacks were a sign that the December elections had failed to diminish the insurgency in Iraq, Gen. Peter Pace said the opposite was true.

    Pace, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said that with each of the country's three elections, voter turnout increased, indicating that "the terrorists failed at each of their primary missions of stopping the vote."

    "What's clear to me is that each of the elections has been a major blow to al Qaeda," Pace said at a Pentagon news conference Thursday. "I think what you're seeing now is a continuing attempt to disrupt the proper formation of the Iraqi government, and I'm confident they will fail."

    CNN's Cal Perry, Barbara Starr and Mohammed Tawfeeq contributed to this report.


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    #10     Jan 6, 2006