Frankly, I know very little about this issue, and appreciate your perspective. I was struck by the quote from the Police Union chief about a "civil war being orchestrated by radical islamists" Perhaps this is common phrase in France, but "civil war" carries with it more serious connotations here in the states. Whether, it is us, or your police union chief overracting. Good luck with it! Calm those Crazies! Here's another come-back for you... Just mention the LA riots back in 1995.
The LA riots are indeed entirely comparable ... the cause is essentially poor & frustrated people feeling ostricised from opportunity in society. The Islamic issue is absent from the problem just as the LA riots had nothing to do with religion. In fact, I'd even go so far as to assume that the Islamic issue is in fact a consequence of the problem and not the root of the problem. When a group in society feels they are ostricised, they often tend to ressort to radical movements ... the Black Panthers happened in the US, and Islamic movements happen in France .. yes, but again, we are takling about radical minorities that by no stretch of the imagination are causing any menace to "take over society".
As for the "civil war" comment, it was obviously used as a gross exageration to describe the intensity between youths and police, and not the span of the problem. The problems are restrained to several communes in France, essentialy around Paris .... out of the thousands of communes in France, I can hardly qualify such violence as a "civil war" just as the LA riots could not be considered in the US as a "civil war".
âGoodbye Europeâ By Lowell Ponte FrontPageMagazine.com | March 28, 2006 âEuropeâs botched civilization, perverted by socialism and lost faith, seems to have lost the will, the passion to sustain itself. If it continues to practice todayâs multiculturalist leftism, Europeâs demographic doom will be sealedâ¦â
That is odd considering that French legislation, and European legislation in general, contains less and less of a socialist coloration prety well every month. I'm not sure how up to date you are on French or European law in general, but the French labour Code has undergone quite a bit of liberal modifications ("liberal" here meaning less state intervention)
http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/1183 Beheading Nations: The Islamization of Europeâs Cities In France, Muslims already have many smaller states within the state. Criminologist Lucienne Bui Trong wrote that: âFrom 106 hot points in 1991, we went to 818 sensitive areas in 1999.â The term she used, âsensitive areas,â was used to describe Muslim no-go zones where anything representing a Western institution (post office truck, firemen, even mail order delivery firms) was routinely ambushed with Molotov cocktails. The number was 818 in 2002, when the French government decided to stop collecting the statistics...... ....Some of the rioters left boasting messages on various Internet forums. âWe arenât going to let up. The French wonât do anything and soon, we will be in the majority here.â One observer stated: âIn France, the majority of young Muslims believe that French society is dying, committing suicide. More like 10 percent to 20 percent of them believe that they are in the process of replacing European civilization with an Islamic one.â...... http://www.chronwatch.com/content/contentDisplay.asp?aid=17731&catcode=13 How Long Before Europe Falls? ....The Muslim riots will spread and demands for Muslim autonomy will be made. This is just the beginning of the war for Europe. The second phase of the Islamification of Europe has begun.... Many French authorities seem bewildered and unable to deal with the uprising. A growing number of Muslims that have immigrated to European countries, it seems, come with no intention of blending with the locals. They have come with a purpose and that purpose is to take over the country. The French will blame the âunrestâ on their own lack of sensitivity to the Islamic way of life. After consultations with Islamic leaders it will be decided that expecting Muslims to become French was an infringement on their rights. In the end, it will be the French that change, not the Muslims. Once again, Islam will be rewarded for violence and its cause will be advanced. Itâs unlikely that there will be riots in the old eastern-block countries. These countries simply wonât tolerate that kind of behavior and Islam knows that. One thing Islamics know how to do is pick their targets. Western Europe is weak. Islamics do make mistakes as they did when America was attacked. After two decades of weakness, Islamics did not expect the reaction to the attack that they got. Genuinely surprised by the attacks on Afghanistan and Iraq, Islamics had to fall back and regroup....
You certainly do find some prety obscure research. Do you realy believe that Islamic groups are going to take over France because you read it on the internet from some very partial, and very questionable sources ? That is about as pertinant as those who claim that their red neck militant groups who practice shooting on a sunday in the Alabama corn fields between 6 packs of coors are going to overthrow the U.S. federal government. Wouldn't you find it prety silly if someone were to tell you "your nation is in danger and to believe the contrary is denying the truth" when reffering to those fanatic groups in Alabama ? What exactly is your point here? Do you love France so much that you want to give the French people a heads up with your invaluable research and advice ? Or are you just totaly awstruck that a country can have problems such as urban violence ? Is there realy any intention to debate here or is the object just try to scream as loud as you can the "France is being taken over by Islam" and trying to back up such claims with trash on the net ? Your point is not quite clear and the evidence you present is weak.
There seem to be two radically differing and mutually exclusive views of the "incidents" in France. I have read AP news reports that faithfully tracked the points you make, namely that they are dissaffected youth, many immigrants, living in large slums that are ignored by the French authorities and left to simmer in justifiable anger over discrimination and lack of opportunities. The other view is presented by the police. That drug gangs have allied with islamist radicals to take over sections of cities, much as the Rio slums are controlled by gangs. Any police presence is treated as a hostile invasion to be repelled with force. The problem with your view is that we have the examples of the Lebanon and the Palestinian Authority to show us where this all leads. How much longer until hezbollah and hamas are repesented in the Paris suburbs? Will they have their own soccer clubs?
How can you attempt to compare France, a predominanlty catholic, and a G8 nation, with a place like palestine that is by far majority muslum, poor, at war, and not even a globaly recognised state ? Could you also compare Haiti to Canada ? As for the drug gangs, I too have heard the theory according to which the muslum radicals are in on the deal. I can not confirm weather this is true or not as there are conflicting reports, and no conclusive evidence to my knowledge, but I must say that I would find it somewhat surprising in view of the fact that muslum extremists believe in capital punishment for narcotic infractions... hell the hardline muslums view a beer as a major sin. Kind of difficult to believe that the muslums are supporting drug gangs, no ? Of course, one could argue that the opium production has always been high in Afghanistan even under the Taliban ... I'm not sure what to make of it. I will not take the first article I see published on the net for the absolute truth necessarily though.
How long before the slums of muslims start demanding, not asking, demanding their own state within France? Don't be foolish and think it won't happen because it will eventually.