The greater value, individualism or collectivism?

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by Ricter, Aug 11, 2012.

  1. Ricter


    I have to respect that Paul Ryan understands "The Argument":

    (excerpt) "The reason I got involved in public service, by and large, if I had to credit one thinker, one person, it would be Ayn Rand," Ryan said during a 2005 event honoring Rand in Washington, D.C., the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reported in April 2009.

    "During the 2005 gathering, Ryan told the audience, "Almost every fight we are involved in here on Capitol Hill ... is a fight that usually comes down to one conflict -- individualism versus collectivism." The event was hosted by The Atlas Society, which prominently features a photo of Rand on its website and describes itself as a group that "promotes open Objectivism: the philosophy of reason, achievement, individualism, and freedom."

    Has the US moved too far towards individualism, or too far towards collectivism? Man's dual nature without argument includes both, we are individuals, we "have a face" (the animals do not), yet we are social animals, we are born dependent and we cannot live truly self-sufficiently (self-reliance being the compromise)...
  2. Brass


  3. Biologically speaking, the most altruistic populations are the ones that persist the longest.
  4. I thought the movie was surprisingly good for a classic.*

    The novel is really too long for commercial adaptation & integrity of the story line.

    * but hey I'm biased my company's name is "John Galt Equity"
  5. we need a combination of both.

    i thought it was funny last year when ryan learned that rand was an outspoken atheist. he seemed shocked for a while but found a way to rationalize it with the thumpers.
    how well does he really know her views?
  6. The US gubbermint is wholly invested in the promises (siren songs) of the collective.
  7. Ricter


    Could the argument be made, that so long as we disagree in roughly balanced percentages of the general population, that we are in fact somewhere between the two extremes which, logically, is the only place we ever can be?
  8. Her atheism should be of no consequence to conservatives.

    The collectivists are a danger precisely because they want to impose their will on the rest of us.

    Most collectivists realize their BS doesn't work on the small scale so they lie to themselves claiming their failures are the work of others.
    Therefore compliance is not optional in their minds.
  9. You obviously disagree with the Ryan plan, I also disagree with alot of his plan, but what is tragic about modern politics is that people like him who atleast put foreword some kind of plan just get demagogued to death. Romney cost himself the election with this pick (no that he had much of a chance anyways) but the thing that i cant fucking stand about politicians is that 95% of them will never put anything foreword and would rather sit on the sidelines taking potshots at those that do.

    There is probably only 20-30 people in congress with the balls to put foreword any kind of bold ideas to solve our problems, and that is why we are just trending straight downhill as a country, 95% of politicians dont have the backbone to put forth some kind of idea to solve our problems, because they know if they do they become a target, so when a guy like Ryan gets punished so badly for throwing out a plan, any plan, to change our trajectory it really is shitty that he gets demagogued to death over it, In our politics people who put forth ideas get punished and those who sit on the sidelines get rewarded.....

    Hell, the 2 people running for president arent even willing to put foreword a detailed plan, because they dont want to run the risk of being attacked.....

  10. Ricter


    Maybe this would be a good time to start a new thread, putting some detail of Obama's "nonexistent" jobs bill out for discussion, and a chance to consider what has been the fate of the plan (so far).
    #10     Aug 11, 2012