Here is the full set of UAH data http://woodfortrees.org/plot/uah/from:1978/to:1994/trend/plot/uah/from:1978/to:1994 http://woodfortrees.org/plot/uah/from:1995/to:2000/trend/plot/uah/from:1995/to:2000 http://woodfortrees.org/plot/uah/from:2001/to:2009/trend/plot/uah/from:2001/to:2009 The periods of 1978 â 1994 and 2001- to date both show cooling trends. Here you go, one of your often quoted sites, shows that CO2 lags temps. http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2004/12/co2-in-ice-cores/ So what caused the initial global warming?, back this up with verifiable data. The scienceblog story you tell says that after (something) started the warming the oceans warmed releasing CO2 which then warmed the planet even more, oceans would then release water vapour which is a more potent GHG. Explain the negative feedback. According to the theory (something) began the global warming releasing CO2 which then continued the warming, and in turn released CO2, which in turn would continue the warming.... If there was no negative feedback then we would see a continual rise in temp and CO2 since the last ice age. That is simply not the case, explain how this negative feedback works and where is it today, where is negative feedback in the 21st century?
Why not get a business card made up, "bigdavediode-King of the Universe" Cool, i want to be king (or perhaps emporer) of the universe!! Neat title, and nobody could disprove it- "Well, the earth is to small a sample size; of course I have no power here, but that would be unrepresentative data....get your ass out of the milky way solar system, and you will see that it's true." So, uh, is the global warming hoax falling apart, or isnt it?
So how does Cap and Trade and how do Carbon offsets benefit the environment? There is widespread corruption, and many instances of people buying credits that do not result in any emission reductions. There are instances of companies that have already made efficency improvements from which they have already made and profited from. There are no said verification of any such services, either from broker or exchange and many Carbon credits in the EU have become worthless when they are discovered to have made no emissions cuts. It can be profitable for many industrial companies to buy credits and profit from the spread in energy prices. Climate Exchange plc which runs the CCX (chicago cliamte exchange" and the ECX (european climate exchange) and ICE stand to benefit from Carbon trading. Let's delve into more detail about these "climate exchanges". "Chicago Climate Exchange Names Founding Members Leaders from Automotive, Chemical, Commercial Real Estate, Environmental Services,Electric Power Generation, Electronics, Forest Products, Municipal, Pharmaceutical and Semiconductor Sectors to join North American Voluntary Private Sector Program to Reduce and Trade Greenhouse Gases (CSRwire) CHICAGO,IL - Efforts to develop market-based solutions to global warming reach a milestone today as leading U.S. and international companies and the City of Chicago announce they will be the Founding Members of Chicago Climate Exchange (CCX®), a voluntary cap-and-trade program for reducing and trading greenhouse gas emissions. In an unprecedented voluntary action, these entities have made a legally binding commitment to reduce their emissions of greenhouse gases by four percent below the average of their 1998-2001 baseline by 2006, the last year of the pilot program. The founding members of CCX include American Electric Power (AEP), Baxter International Inc., the City of Chicago, DuPont, Equity Office Properties Trust, Ford Motor Company, International Paper, Manitoba Hydro, MeadWestvaco Corporation, Motorola, Inc., STMicroelectronics, Stora Enso North America, Temple-Inland Inc. and Waste Management,Inc. (snip) CCX will administer this pilot program for emission sources, farm and forest carbon sinks, offset projects and liquidity providers in North America. To foster international emissions trading, offset providers in Brazil can also participate. The development of CCX resulted from feasibility and design studies that were funded by grants from the Chicago-based Joyce Foundation and administered by Northwestern Universityâs Kellogg Graduate School of Management. Environmental Financial Products, LLC conducted the research and development effort."
Barack Obama set on the board of the Joyce Foundation from 1994-2002. The Joyce Foundation provided the funding source to start the Chicago Climate exchange. "The Jersey Guys on NJ101.5 was talking about Gov. Jon Corzine. Corzine is working Barack Hussein Obamaâs campaign. Word is Corzine is promised a high level position in the Treasury in an Obama Presidency. Corzine was former CEO of Goldman Sachs. The Jersey Guy's said that Corzine told Merrill Lynch and his Wall Street buddies that this financial crash will be fixed in an Obama admnistration. No details on how though. Merrill Lynch has offices in NJ and it seems they are very worried. Maurice Strong is involved with Chicagoâs Climate Exchange. Al Gore is chairman of a private equity firm called Generation Investment Management. That firm invests money from institutions and wealthy investors in companies that are going green. Generation Investment Management purchases carbon dioxide offsets. The co-founder of Generation Investment Management is former Goldman Sachs CEO Hank Paulson, who is currently the Secretary of the U.S. Treasury. Goldman Sachs bought 10% of Chicagoâs Climate Exchange shares for $23 million. Chicagoâs Climate Exchange owns half of the European Climate Exchange, Europeâs largest carbon trading company. Maurice Strong: Chicago Climate Exchangeâs board member. Canadian Maurice Strong has made a career and a fortune out of financial rip-offs. Strong served on the board of the International Union for the Conservation of Nature (World Conservation Union) and was an advisor to the UNâs Kofi Annan. Among many other things, he was the first Executive Director of the United Nations Environment Program in the 1970âs and Secretary General of the 1992 UN Conference on Environment and Development, also known as the Earth Summit. Goldman Sachs: The largest shareholder of the Chicago Climate Exchange and the second largest shareholder of the InterContinental Exchange. In fact, Goldman Sachs put Al Gore into the carbon offset hedge fund business in 2003 when David Blood, a former CEO of Goldman Sachs Assets Management, along with two other former Goldman Sachs officers, helped Gore establish his firm, General Investment Management, which focuses on âSustainable Investingâ by peddling carbon offsets. Jon Corzine: He is now the Governor of NJ. He retired from Goldman Sachs in 1999 after taking the firm public and receiving at least $320 million worth of its stock. He ran for the Senate in New Jersey in 2000, spending more than $60 million of his fortune to win the seat. The bubble of high-priced technology stocks began to burst in March 2000. In August 2000, the SEC issued a warning against aftermarket sales, also known as âladdering.â âIâve never even heard the term âladderingâ before,â Corzine said. However, Nicholas Maier of Cramer & Co. said it happened on Corzineâs watch. âFor Corzine not to know of a common practice being utilized to generate and manipulate stock prices would be surprising,â Mr. Maier said. âHe was obviously there during this time. I definitively saw his company engaged in illegal activity. They (the SEC) expressed to me that laddering is a trickier thing [to prove],â Maier said. âI will say it. They did it. They laddered. Whether the SEC can construct a case is a different story.â Al Gore: Owns a carbon trading business, Generation Investment Management. They were banked with the Lehman Bros. The Generation Investment Management business has considerable influence over the major carbon credit trading firms that currently exist. Merrill Lynch: Deeply involved in the Carbon trading business. They are a founding member and primary sponsor of the U.K.-based Carbon Disclosure Project. Merrill Lynch is headed by John A Thain who is a Goldman Sachs alumni. Lehman Brothers: Created a propaganda piece last year about climate change to make their investors keep getting high profits from the Kyoto carbon trade scheme and the support of huge public subventions. All that, of course, with the applause of the usual choir of politicians, the entire media and the Greens. A year ago they couldnât predict their bankruptcy but were predicting the climate 100 years ahead. Thousands of green militants have been using the Lehman report as a proof of global warming and impending chaos. The report is the basis for policies on climate change in Spain, Argentina and several other countries playing the progress game. Chicago Climate Exchange: The Exchange owes it existence in part to the Joyce Foundation, the Chicago-based liberal foundation philanthropy that provided $347,000 in grant support in 2000 for a preliminary study to test the viability of a market in carbon credits. On the CCX board of directors is the ubiquitous Maurice Strong, a Canadian industrialist and diplomat who since the 1970s has helped create an international policy agenda for the environmentalist movement. Joyce Foundation: Provided grant support to test the market in carbon credits. Barack Hussein Obama sat on their Board for 8 years." Al Gore's Generation Investment Management, which is founded by him and where he is chairman has a 10% stake in the CCX. Generation Investment Mangement was co-founded by the honest, courageous, strong-hearted Gore and the evil, cowardly Bush Treasury secretary Hank Paulson. Goldman Sachs also has a 10% stake in the CCX, the CCX by itself has a 50% stake in the ECX. GIM founding partners include David Blood, former CEO of Goldman Sachs Asset Management, Mark Ferguson former co-head of GSAM pan-European research and Peter Harris, who headed GSAM international operations. Another founding partner is Peter Knight, who is the designated president of GIM. He was Sen. Al Goreâs chief of staff from 1977-1989 and the campaign manager of the 1996 Clinton-Gore re-election campaign. The European Climate Exchange has about 80 member companies, including British Petroleum, Barclays, Calyon, Endesa, Goldman Sachs, Fortis, Morgan Stanley and Shell, and ECX has been contracted with the EU to develop a futures market in carbon trading. They may receive subsidies from governments for doing so. Morgan Stanley, Citi and BOA are also active participants in th emissions trading market. MS invested$3 billion in carbon-related projects, and GS 1 billion. GS also has invested 2.3 million in the World Resources Institute. The World Bank works with the ECX and runs the Carbon fund for Europe to help meet their kyoto recquirements. More evil republicans like H.W. Bushâs National Security Advisor Brent Scowcroft and Reagan-era EPA Director Lee Thomas sit on the board of Al Gore's "Alliance for climate protection". Even if the Cap and Trade program is implemented, it will only transfer the industrialization base to countries like China and India which have no restrictions and HAVE NO PLANS to make any restrictions. So in effect the Carbon output in industrialized countries will be Offset by the carbon output in developing countries. So it will NOT PREVENT the total carbon output in the end.
I find these to be the most entertaining posts on the entire thread. Ah, let's reminisce in to the good old Digg years..... Railer, on 10/12/2007, -7/+12@bigdavediode - DO you guys even read what you post? I don't have the time to refute all of your half truths and misunderstood science, but I thought I'd point out to you that polar bear numbers are declining according to:# ^ Gunderson, A. 2002. "Ursus maritimus" (On-line), Animal Diversity Web. http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/site/accounts/information/Ursus_maritimus.html Ok now I'm quoting right from the web page the FIRST LINE under Conservation Status: Polar bear populations are considered to be stable or growing. MY head hurts >>>>how many species died because of climate change? Can I get a list. "Dinosaurs come to mind offhand. Where are they now?" Seriously with all the species you could have chose you went for dinosaur's? Really? Because most paleontologists I know think it was a meteorite? A BIG ***** ROCK that destroyed most of North America in a few seconds, and plunged the earth in total darkness for months if not years? If that's climate change I'll watch for that, when that happens I'll believe in it too. You know what I noticed? A hockey stock graph going damn near straight up. Yes there are oscillations in it. I find it funny that you posted a link to this, given that it utterly destroys your premise. Again The "Hockey Stick" you talk about is gone even the IPCC no longer uses it if you actually looked at the graph: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Instrumental_Temperature_Record.png 1000 years ago temperatures were where they are now, it then cooled down (1650-1700) because the sun went dormant (reason unknown), the sun started in a very strong phase of activity where upon it started to heat up and continues to do so. You may also want to read: http://meteo.lcd.lu/globalwarming/Barton/07142006_Wegman_Report.pdf Anyway, off to work. Have fun blowing up your own arguments. - Actually you confirmed one of my arguments, and really please don't go to work drunk, your employer won't like it.
So lets close this thread already? Who are you, Al Gore saying the debate is over? It is funny how the MMGW cultist always want to shut the debate down. I wonder why that is.
Most of your posts don't ever have citations because most of the numbers you use, you just make up. I did find one post with an actual citation to realclimate.org which is hosted by Environmental Media Services, who have an obvious agenda. EMS was founded by Arlie Schardt who is tied to a host of greeny groups so yes, your souce was funded by "Big Green".
What thread were you reading? I've never seen someone dodge and faint the way bigdumbdavetheidiot does. And IF he were winning, why would want him to stop?