you guys gotta be kidding, still discussing with this shill? This is my one and only post in this thread I already feel I wasted time as I type right now but come on guys, I mean it can't be more obvious that this guy is just selling bs. I understand some of you are after the source code but do you seriously want to do business with someone who conducts himself in a completely ridiculous manner? What do you expect from the service after you have paid and what do you expect from the product itself? Either a) you go with an off-the-shelf product that allows to extend in C# or the like or b) you develop your stuff from the ground up all yourself, c) you get your hands at some source to speed up development. Question begs, most of you clearly seem to be after c) but do you REALLY trust the product advertised by a guy who conducts himself like a total clown, who tells all of us he would stop posting here for over ten times and demonstrates he clearly has zero clue about licensing and open source definitions? I can only wonder...I strongly recommend to stop feeding this troll.
I like their commercial with the Black Eyed Peas - Tick, Zoom, Pow. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtGlHPFCH8A
This is a long post to reply to your question (although sarcastic) and address several other posts at the same time. Rather than several different posts, all the topics are included in just 2. These posts cover the following topics. Zoom Speed? Wayne (me) Is An Idiot and a Jerk Disadvantages of TickZoom Exactly What Source IS Open in TZ? What Source Costs $15,000? More or Less Ideal TZ User Out of Beta Testing Simulates Real Time Environment During Testing Multiple Symbols Automated Trading Service Zoom Speed? Well, TZ processes 11,000,000 ticks in just under 40 seconds and never uses over 80 meg of memory. Is that ZOOM speed? You decide. It can also process billions of ticks which takes linearly longer, but due to streaming technology someone recommended (and was added) it never uses more than around 80 meg of memory and so it can actually run endless amounts of data without blowing the PC memory. Someone also pushed for addding the ability to process bar data at equivalent speeds and that was added recently, it processes over 6,000 bars (25 years of daily data) in less than 400 ms. That can make for some really quickly optimizations runs. That involved give TZ the ability to generate fake ticks if you wish so orders can fill with simulated data "inside the bar" for those who insist on using bar data instead of tick data. Pippi, who posted early proposed a cool feature which will make processing tick data about 100 to 1,000 times faster. That hasn't been added yet, but I'm excited about it as you can imagine. Obviously, processing ticks is definately slower than bars. So my hat is off to Pippi (who was formely a freebie member) for recommending a hybrid system that optimizes by only firing real ticks only when needed but otherwise uses bar data for speed. Of course, that's useless if you prefer to use tick bars in trading like myself. But to each her own. Wayne (me) Is An Idiot and a Jerk Maybe you don't believe anything I say. You may consider me a schmuck, a scam artist, an idiot, stupid, whatever. I don't care. Others may say the software stinks and is useless. But are they users of it? Or were they simply pissed off spurned for getting kicked out, turned away, or just unable to afford it? You decide if that's relevant. Either the software works, TZ has good support and a nice community, or it doesn't. And if you apply (when we open the window again) and you get access to try the software, to join the forums and the wiki, then you can talk with other users yourself personally. No cost, no obligation. They're all eager to have you as a new member. They simply insist, as I do, on limiting how many and and how often so new users never become a burden. That's also why there's maintenance fees required just like all professional software. By the way, the engine code that costs $14,999 also has annual maintennace of $3,999. The Gold memberships are currently $1,499 but will soon increase to $1,999. Eventually TZ Gold membership will have an entry fee like Trading Blox of $2,999 plus annual maintenance fees. If more hedge funds keep inquiring for the $15,000 license, then TZ may get closed to any new individual members. It costs nothing but time to fill out a short application to try TZ yourself and find out what it's really like to be a TZ member. (NOTE: TickZOOM currently closed to new member applications.) Anyone who applies, will speak by phone with me at least once before your full approval to see if you get along with me and vice versa. Obviously, some people and I never hit it off. So if you tend to think like some who posted here about wanting the "high" upfront fee split into monthly payments or a much longer trial period, then you'll get pissed off to. Better never to apply. I'm very sorry Bluelou didn't realize or wasn't aware of this upfront. Admittedly we previously did have a quarterly payment plan but dropped it before he applied. He was mabye unaware. You will especially detest me if you expect professional, money-making software to be free or cheap. If so, then you will especially hate my guts you see the prices for TickZOOM continue to increase for new members as the software continues to improve. Disadvantages of TickZoom But remember, TZ has zero discretionary trading ability right now. It's engineered to allow historical test simulation of a strategy so fast to work out bugs using real tick data. Please understand, TZ is NOT as shiny and slick as retail packages like Ninja, TradeStation, etc. Also, TZ intentionally has limited documentation. Instead it focuses on giving code examples and making things highly intuitive to use to anyone who already used EasyLanguage, NinjaTrader or other similar platforms. Some agree and others disagree but my instinct is that if a system requires tons of documentation then it is ill-conceived and confusing. But I know others feel differently so we do plan to spend time on documenting. Most likely it will be in the form of online videos for the more advanced features. TZ has some game changing features which are foreign to most people since they don't exist on other platforms. So it takes usually a chat on the phone for them to "get it". But they always feel those features are awesome or even suggest how to improve them. NOTE: This is one of the things we evaluate during your trial period. We observe whether you're a good fit for the level of skill and experience needed to handle TZ and if you're a fit for the community. We will attempt to graciously inform you if you don't fit or should reapply later when there's more documentation, etc. TickZoom also only supports a single broker right now, MB Trading. But since it's open source, you can add your own broker, hire a programmer to do so by imitating the MB Trading Service. Or you can pay us to do it. Now, we do plan to add Interactive Brokers soon but have other more pressing priorities. So you see, TickZOOM is far from being perfect. However, serious hedge funds are interested since no other product has the infrastructure to support truly end-to-end automated trading where you can both create, test, deploy to automattion, and get live stats from the same system. continued....
Exactly What Source IS Open in TZ? As far as open source, you must understand that 90% of TZ functionality is open source. When I say functionality, I mean the list of features. All of the functionality which matters to users is open: GUI, Charting Performance stats, Order handling, Trade Execution Tick binary data format Tick file reader/writer Bar data reader/writer ExitStrategies, PositionSizing Indicators (not many but some standard ones) Reporting Trade Server Portfolio Management Data Dictionary Optimization Genetic Optimization Market Accelerator/Simulator --- There's more features which are open source "for eyes only" -- That is, I can tell you but then I have to kill you. What Source Costs $15,000? The only source code unavailable to Gold members is the source that makes this ZOOM performance possible for converting ticks into bars and firing events to the models. That commerical, and admittedly high-priced engine code is substantial due to the complexity of processing tick data at such high speeds. The engine is built similar to the Linux kernel in some ways. It has components called Kernel, Drivers, etc. In fact the lines of source in that functionality currently exceeds the rest of the platform even though it only offers 2 featurs. Multiple Symbols Right now, the next feature being added is to process multiple symbols which will only go quickly because TZ already supports portfolios. I don't want to allow any new users until that is finished so it will be a week or two. More or Less Ideal TZ Member TickZoom was built for the serious professional automated trader who has some programming skill but prefers to focus on writing models and strategies rather than building a platform. Simulates Real Time Environment During Testing All the philosophy of tickzoom is to make historical testing exactly simulate real time trading so you have confidence in how the strategy will perform in a live, real time environment. For example, TZ builds multiple bar intervals of data on the fly at the same time while they and everything else in the system, all stats, bars, etc. get updated with every tick. As a related point, some of those users who pushed for TZ supporting bar data, now, suddenly, realize the importance of using tick data. That's because, for example, if you have a buy stop and a sell stop which would both get hit during a bar, bar data never tells you which gets hit first because it never says whether the high or the low of the bar happened first. Worse yet, on some occassions the market zig zag up then down then up then down again during one day. So using tick data gives far more accurate testing. And, IMHO, lack of using tick data is the primary reason why many failed at back testing to create winning strategies--but probably other factors contribute to failure. Still many hedge funds who generate 50% returns per year would fire any analyst on the spot who ran a system without proving it works on historical tick data first. So go figure why some misinformed say historical testing "doesn't work". Out of Beta Testing TickZoom is out of Beta testing. It's been heavily tested by users including professional traders and an instition. Of course, any errors they found were added to automated tests so they can't rear their ugly heads again. Automated Trading Service Even though it only supports a single broker, TZ has solid logic for retry, restart, etc and runs as a Windows Service---again all open source --- so it is reliable and stays connected and reconnects 24/7. It's relatively easy to copy that logic and alter it to add another broker. Sincerely, Wayne
Tee hee. That literally made me laugh out loud which is great for the health so thanks. It's not free publicity either. ET is charging me to be a sponsor--remember. NOTE: I said I would stop posting on this thread when it was about bluelou. enough was said. But this thread changed to discussing the cost of engine source at $15,000 (to be accurate). So that's a different topic. Open Source/Free Source/etc code is a different topic also. So this is really several threads in one. You're right, it does generate curiosity. What happens though is that many people don't care about terminology so much as others and this whole business about a "shill" is ridiculous but you're welcome to continue. Just realize, some people will agree with you. And others will not. Many people will wonder WHO YOU ARE? WHY are you so motivated to research and bust butt over this? What's your real name? What company are you with? When you disclose your real name, your company, personal email and other information, then you can bust butt over other people who decline to reveal who they are openly. I completely understand and apologize to bluelou. But what possible valid reason do you have to be involved? Am I picking a fight to generate publicity? You decide. Please continue spending tons of time on this thread that benefits you for nada. Sincerely, Wayne
Pippi, I take your comment as a kind correction of my behavior and appreciate it. I can see in hindsight why that looks bad. Although, if anyone asked like bluelou did I never hesitated to say it was myself. You realize, it was possible to tell bluelou that chaostheory was a TZ member. Noone would ever know with the anonymity of the accounts here. So, everyone who cares, at least consider and give some credit that it wasn't my intention to deceive or trick anybody. Still, I apologize humbly for any hurt feelings over that. And I'm certain no "harm" came from it as I explained previously or else I would take action to correct it. Sincerely, Wayne
Fine. So it changed. So what? Nobody lost anything or was harmed by this change, were they. I almost want to say, get a life. But surely you have some valid motivation to preach about this.
Thanks. By the way, bm, mainly due to your nickname which is an immoral, double-entendre I'm adding your account to my ignore list. I mean this note politely so you'll understand if you don't see any more response from me. Thanks for understanding. Sincerely, Wayne
Maxpi, Hey, thanks for looking at this question in a level headed kind of way. FYI, it never requires any money to "check it out". It only requires submitting an application and it gets accepted. Zero cost or obligation. That's why there's no scam. All the irritation is mainly because people were enamored with the idea of TZ being totally open source and completely free and feel annoyed because that changed. That happens to every project that switches, like MySQL, etc. Fortunately, in the case of TickZoom, not a single person contributed any code, documentation or anything else except a few tickets and forum posts with ideas for features and maybe downloading and running the trial before the switch to commercial. Of course, only limited number of people get accepted and fewer still get approved after the trial period. And you're right about documentation. Having the source code is the best documentation, in my book. Even the engine which is closed to Gold members has a full open source API dll which makes it easy to work with too. For any software with open source, I personally never bother with reading documentation beyond the installation steps. And if I get really stuck, I just ask in a forum. So, I guess TZ reflects how I personally like to see software that I use. Over time, we'll make it more approachable to people with different styles and include more documentation, videos, etc. But that's all back burner to adding necessary functionality. Sincerely, Wayne