The criminal enterprise known as Medicine

Discussion in 'Politics' started by SoesWasBetter, May 30, 2017.

  1. vanzandt

    vanzandt

    Just curious... did you ask how much was charged out of pocket?
     
    #11     May 31, 2017
  2. If only there was some way to get rid of the insurance and pharma lobbying influence.
     
    #12     May 31, 2017
  3. jem

    jem

    you can't seriously be representing that WHO rankings indicate that that health care results are better almost everywhere else.

    have you traveled?
    do you believe subjective rankings based on a host of factors is truly indicative of results?

    why ruin your observations by bringing in leftist propaganda and solutions.
    why not just say our health care results are generally excellent and world leading in many areas but it is really expensive because our politicians are owned by Wall Street and its insurance companies and therefore proper reform is very unlikely.

    even futurecurents highlighted a big part of the problem.

    our politicians are not deaf and dumb about price elasticity they are corrupt and paid for.

    when there was talk of drug prices being bargained for collectively they drug companies got bush and republicans to pass a law that made sure they got paid in full at full prices.

    when it was time to perhaps get govt payer or even single payer the insurance companies got Obama Pelosi and Reid to get all the other democrats on board to screw every tax payer in the country even democrats. When half the democrat senators lost their seats..... those same insurance companies and wall street seem to be able to get Ryan and McConnell to prevent trump even something as simple as repeal of obamacare even though it drove up premiums to crazy levels.


     
    #13     May 31, 2017
  4. piezoe

    piezoe

    I have traveled widely as a matter of fact. And I experienced first hand healthcare in Brazil. Although strictly anecdotal, my experience there was wonderful, and even more so if I compare it to what I would have had to go through in the U.S. under similar circumstances. Three cheers for the Brazilian healthcare system!!! . And of course I trust the WHO rankings. They are based on both purely objective and somewhat subjective criteria. Correct me if I'm way off, but the last time I looked it seems the U.S. was ranked somewhere down around 38th.

    Of course the WHO rankings could be "fake". :D
     
    #14     May 31, 2017
  5. piezoe

    piezoe

    Here you go jem. Courtesy Numbeo, whatever that is. I see we are doing better. All the way up to 35th, just three places below India.
    Health Care Index for Country 2017





    Click to see this on a map: [​IMG]
    [​IMG] More information about these indices
    Select date:
    Select Region: Africa America Asia Europe Oceania
    Search:

    Rank
    Country
    Health Care Index
    Health Care
    Exp. Index

    1 South Korea 83.20 152.14
    2 Netherlands 82.50 151.34
    3 Taiwan 81.14 148.12
    4 Austria 80.91 148.90
    5 Thailand 80.66 147.46
    6 Sri Lanka 80.04 146.12
    7 Belgium 78.92 144.43
    8 Japan 78.63 143.27
    9 France 78.62 144.00
    10 Germany 76.74 140.31
    11 Spain 76.65 141.24
    12 Malta 76.18 139.03
    13 Denmark 75.45 139.21
    14 Finland 74.85 136.08
    15 Israel 74.78 136.91
    16 United Kingdom 74.28 135.95
    17 Australia 74.25 135.08
    18 Norway 74.19 135.78
    19 Czech Republic 74.09 136.05
    20 Argentina 73.30 133.68
    21 Jordan 71.92 131.35
    22 Turkey 71.68 129.20
    23 Estonia 71.30 130.71
    24 Switzerland 71.04 133.06
    25 Sweden 70.64 129.58
    26 New Zealand 70.58 127.90
    27 Portugal 70.31 127.45
    28 Mexico 70.11 125.70
    29 Singapore 69.87 129.40
    30 Ecuador 69.24 124.87
    31 Canada 69.23 127.13
    32 India 69.18 124.52
    33 Philippines 69.16 124.10
    34 Lithuania 68.74 123.71
    35 United States 68.22 125.94
    36 Hong Kong 67.99 124.21
    37 Uruguay 67.11 120.67
    38 Italy 66.31 120.46
    39 Qatar 66.14 119.54
    40 Malaysia 65.99 118.63
    41 Colombia 65.79 117.82
    42 Tunisia 65.73 117.37
    43 Iceland 65.64 119.12
    44 Croatia 65.49 121.03
    45 Indonesia 64.80 115.88
    46 Slovenia 64.35 117.51
    47 Lebanon 64.28 118.54
    48 Macedonia 63.46 113.28
    49 Slovakia 62.63 113.35
    50 China 62.25 111.03
    51 South Africa 61.72 110.65
    52 Bosnia And Herzegovina 61.49 110.37
    53 Poland 61.46 110.68
    54 Chile 60.97 109.82
    55 United Arab Emirates 60.49 111.23
    56 Saudi Arabia 60.41 108.26
    57 Costa Rica 60.19 107.67
    58 Pakistan 59.05 104.36
    59 Peru 58.46 104.83
    60 Kuwait 57.60 105.95
    61 Russia 56.40 99.19
    62 Puerto Rico 56.28 103.88
    63 Cyprus 54.23 94.54
    64 Bulgaria 54.03 96.67
    65 Greece 53.92 94.91
    66 Serbia 53.86 97.42
    67 Belarus 53.76 94.69
    68 Hungary 53.46 95.40
    69 Ireland 53.33 96.26
    70 Romania 53.11 93.55
    71 Nigeria 52.33 91.41
    72 Brazil 51.70 91.48
    73 Iran 51.55 91.37
    74 Ukraine 49.81 86.74
    75 Vietnam 47.87 81.70
    76 Iraq 45.92 79.04
    77 Morocco 44.50 75.42
    78 Egypt 43.73 75.36
    79 Bangladesh 43.49 75.19
    80 Venezuela 36.90 63.47
    Showing 1 to 80 of 80 entries
     
    #15     May 31, 2017
  6. piezoe

    piezoe

    Here is the WHO ranking. At least we made it above india in this one.

    World Health Organization’s Ranking of the World’s Health Systems

    January 15, 2017 manuelcosta2561 Comment
    Manostaxx

    The text that follows is owned by the site above referred.

    Here is only a small part of the article, for more please follow the link

    SOURCE: http://thepatientfactor.com/canadia...zations-ranking-of-the-worlds-health-systems/



    Some people fancy all health care debates to be a case of Canadian Health Care vs. American. Not so. According to the World Health Organization’s ranking of the world’s health systems, neither Canada nor the USA ranks in the top 25.



    World Health Organization Ranking; The World’s Health Systems
    1 France
    2 Italy
    3 San Marino
    4 Andorra
    5 Malta
    6 Singapore
    7 Spain
    8 Oman
    9 Austria
    10 Japan
    11 Norway
    12 Portugal
    13 Monaco
    14 Greece
    15 Iceland
    16 Luxembourg
    17 Netherlands
    18 United Kingdom
    19 Ireland
    20 Switzerland
    21 Belgium
    22 Colombia
    23 Sweden
    24 Cyprus
    25 Germany
    26 Saudi Arabia
    27 United Arab Emirates
    28 Israel
    29 Morocco
    30 Canada
    31 Finland
    32 Australia
    33 Chile
    34 Denmark
    35 Dominica
    36 Costa Rica
    37 USA
    38 Slovenia
    39 Cuba
    40 Brunei
    41 New Zealand
    42 Bahrain
    43 Croatia
    44 Qatar
    45 Kuwait
    46 Barbados
    47 Thailand
    48 Czech Republic
    49 Malaysia
    50 Poland
    51 Dominican Republic
    52 Tunisia
    53 Jamaica
    54 Venezuela
    55 Albania
    56 Seychelles
    57 Paraguay
    58 South Korea
    59 Senegal
    60 Philippines
    61 Mexico
    62 Slovakia
    63 Egypt
    64 Kazakhstan
    65 Uruguay
    66 Hungary
    67 Trinidad and Tobago
    68 Saint Lucia
    69 Belize
    70 Turkey
    71 Nicaragua
    72 Belarus
    73 Lithuania
    74 Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
    75 Argentina
    76 Sri Lanka
    77 Estonia
    78 Guatemala
    79 Ukraine
    80 Solomon Islands
    81 Algeria
    82 Palau
    83 Jordan
    84 Mauritius
    85 Grenada
    86 Antigua and Barbuda
    87 Libya
    88 Bangladesh
    89 Macedonia
    90 Bosnia-Herzegovina
    91 Lebanon
    92 Indonesia
    93 Iran
    94 Bahamas
    95 Panama
    96 Fiji
    97 Benin
    98 Nauru
    99 Romania
    100 Saint Kitts and Nevis
    101 Moldova
    102 Bulgaria
    103 Iraq
    104 Armenia
    105 Latvia
    106 Yugoslavia
    107 Cook Islands
    108 Syria
    109 Azerbaijan
    110 Suriname
    111 Ecuador
    112 India
    113 Cape Verde
    114 Georgia
    115 El Salvador
    116 Tonga
    117 Uzbekistan
    118 Comoros
    119 Samoa
    120 Yemen
    121 Niue
    122 Pakistan
    123 Micronesia
    124 Bhutan
    125 Brazil
    126 Bolivia
    127 Vanuatu 128 Guyana
    129 Peru
    130 Russia
    131 Honduras
    132 Burkina Faso
    133 Sao Tome and Principe
    134 Sudan
    135 Ghana
    136 Tuvalu
    137 Ivory Coast
    138 Haiti
    139 Gabon
    140 Kenya
    141 Marshall Islands
    142 Kiribati
    143 Burundi
    144 China
    145 Mongolia
    146 Gambia
    147 Maldives
    148 Papua New Guinea
    149 Uganda
    150 Nepal
    151 Kyrgystan
    152 Togo
    153 Turkmenistan
    154 Tajikistan
    155 Zimbabwe
    156 Tanzania
    157 Djibouti
    158 Eritrea
    159 Madagascar
    160 Vietnam
    161 Guinea
    162 Mauritania
    163 Mali
    164 Cameroon
    165 Laos
    166 Congo
    167 North Korea
    168 Namibia
    169 Botswana
    170 Niger
    171 Equatorial Guinea
    172 Rwanda
    173 Afghanistan
    174 Cambodia
    175 South Africa
    176 Guinea-Bissau
    177 Swaziland
    178 Chad
    179 Somalia
    180 Ethiopia
    181 Angola
    182 Zambia
    183 Lesotho
    184 Mozambique
    185 Malawi
    186 Liberia
    187 Nigeria
    188 Democratic Republic of the Congo
    189 Central African Republic
    190 Myanmar
    Source: World Health Organization
     
    #16     May 31, 2017
  7. jem

    jem

    I will tell you why those studies can be very misleading...

    lets talk about infant mortality.
    many countries don't try and save babies unless they reach a certain birth weight. Many premies therefore die. those deaths don't hurt their countries rankings.

    Whereas here in the states we have children's hospitals with doctors, drugs and machines that can save babies as early as 23 and 24 weeks. These doctors and drugs which can make lungs mature faster and ecmo machines are amazing and they are really expensive and they can save babies that other countries let die. Now some of these babies don't have great results.. some die as young children.... Those deaths harm the rankings of American health care.

    However couples from all of the world bring their at risk pregnancies here to our hospitals because our doctors drugs and tech are the best in the world.

    I can give you examples from a wide range of medical fields just like the one above.
    In terms of ability to save lives our doctors drugs and tech are almost always the top.

    Its only when studies give weight to other categories such as cost that our health care system starts to falter, but in terms of results... If I had a serious condition I that needed surgery or advanced practice and care I would rather be in a hospital in a major city here in america than just about anywhere in the world. And on average so would most of the people in the world who have the money to have a choice.
     
    #17     May 31, 2017
  8. jem

    jem

    piezoe are you related to Brazillian politicians?
     
    #18     May 31, 2017
  9. piezoe

    piezoe

    no, but I like Brazil and Brazilians. In Salvador I went into a liquor store and there was a bunch of people standing around drinking the liquor. I found out you could taste the liquor before you bought it to make sure you liked it. Very hospitable, I thought. Liquor is very inexpensive in Brazil. Even imported European brands are cheap there. I'll be leaving for Quebec in a few weeks. I love Canada! I like every country I've visited so far except central Arkansas.
     
    #19     May 31, 2017