The Credit Crisis Financial Stocks Short Journal

Discussion in 'Journals' started by Daal, Aug 14, 2008.

  1. Daal

    Daal

    #181     Feb 20, 2009
  2. m22au

    m22au

    I think you're right, however what if bondholders are forced to take a haircut bigger than 25%?


     
    #182     Feb 20, 2009
  3. m22au

    m22au

    This administration is much slower at doing things.

    I'd say that there is a 75% chance that there is no concrete response from Obama / Geithner before Monday morning.

    Announcements to the effect of "We'll come up with a plan" do not count as a concrete plan. If this was pre-Jan 20, Paulson would be working all weekend and have a bailout ready by Sunday evening.


     
    #183     Feb 20, 2009
  4. Daal

    Daal

    I guess I will have to take that risk, in that case though financial stocks will dive so much I should benefit in other shorts. But at this point I believe large US bank bonds are as good as agencies bonds and they are worth 100c on the dollar(more if the coupon is 5%+), yet they trade around 75-90c. The market seem to be taking the fear a bit too far
     
    #184     Feb 20, 2009
  5. m22au

    m22au

    However the chance of a concrete response from Obama / Geithner before Monday morning increases as the stockmarket tanks, particularly if the Dow closes below 7282 (9 Oct 2002 closing) and 7197 (10 Oct 2002 intraday)


     
    #185     Feb 20, 2009
  6. djtholen

    djtholen

    This past week has been a "stress test" of sorts. Looks like they both failed with flying colors.
     
    #186     Feb 20, 2009
  7. Daal

    Daal

    Looks like instead of overnight nationalizations we will get creeping nationalization due political reasons. We are seeing a gradual process where banks get more capital, 'agree' more and more with government moves, have the government rising as a share of their equity

    The thing is if the banking system needs more capital even above the TARP amounts, nationalization wont do anything about that problem.

    That is, unless preferred holders and perhaps senior bondholders are wiped out as a way to 'recapitalize' the bank. Dodd is saying is politically impossible to get more funds due widespread anger, this could mean Bill Gross will overestimated the degree of which the government would handout cash to him. I might get hurt as well as a bondholder but C bonds are already pricing in a haircut.

    There is $500b in C bonds out there, will the government really have the guts send half trillion in losses through the world and raise lots of the issues of counterparty fears that have diminished?I find that doubtful
     
    #187     Feb 23, 2009
  8. Daal

    Daal

    I said I would probably buy more, well I didnt. This lastest stock plunge shows I problem I have been having in trading.

    I have been trading too 'jewishly', I keep trying to get a nickel in bargains discounts to buy or waiting for bigger rallies to short and endup losing whole dollars. Loading up in JUN puts should have been a 'home run' trade for 2009 like fed futures last year, due my conservative position size and waiting for a better bargain, the gains were limited and could be wiped out if C bonds are wacked
     
    #188     Feb 23, 2009
  9. Daal

    Daal

    Going to have to take profits on SPY puts on the open since the reason I bought them has played out(JP Morgan research on bears low testing). The trading service I subscribe to(quantifiable edges newsletter) says the market is very oversold and there is an significant upside edge, so unless we get a Oct 08 type crash, the market should come back. I'm long SPY to help me hold bank shorts, fed futures, long dollar betting on the rebound, but the position is already underwater, I plan to add more on the open

    There is an interesting article on the FDIC problems at running banks
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123543631794154467.html?mod=article-outset-box
    This could mean we will get this hybrid nationalization instead of FDIC take over, I think the implication for bank shareholders is the same, dillution and lower prices
     
    #189     Feb 24, 2009
  10. Daal

    Daal

    Bill Gross is saying nationalization is a bad idea
    http://www.pimco.com/LeftNav/Featur...ll+Gross+March+2009+Hairy+Lips+Sink+Ships.htm

    Now of course, pimco has a interest on keeping the current policies as it makes him money but his argument makes sense

    The total amount of large bank debt and preferred stock is in the range of trillions, if the government were to wipe that out to 'capitalize' the banks, it could swap one problem for another. Banks would have capital but perhaps insurance companies would drop like flies, even Berkshire would lose big as almost 1/3 of their stock portfolio is in financials, plus who knows who else is holding this stuff. To wipe that much wealth out in the range of trillions is like selling a put in the financial system, perhaps you collect something in terms of less moral hazard or lower fiscal cost but you risk disastrous consequences

    In the other hand, common stocks, preferred and to a much smaller extend bank bonds, have already collapsed, so any institution who keeps their book in a mark to market basis has already taken big losses in those assets, the question is if further losses would make a difference. Bank common and preferred shares probably wouldn't(XLF is already at $8, PGF at $7) but the bonds almost certainly would as they havent collapsed yet and their size makes the stocks look like nothing
     
    #190     Feb 25, 2009