The Credit Crisis Financial Stocks Short Journal

Discussion in 'Journals' started by Daal, Aug 14, 2008.

  1. m22au

    m22au

    Daal,

    Well thought out logic there, and I'm starting to think that there is an increasing chance of nationalisation for BAC and C, for a variety of reasons.

    With C and BAC stocks quickly heading towards zero (new multi-year low for C today), this could also force Obama and Timmy G to do something (nationalisation) if they're not quick enough to do 'something else'.

    However I still think there is a better chance that they do the 'something else', which is to provide generous guarantees like they did for C in November.


     
    #171     Feb 19, 2009
  2. They need to rip the band aid off quick on BAC C. Otherwise the market will die of a 1000 cuts.
     
    #172     Feb 19, 2009
  3. m22au

    m22au

    If nothing else, it's fun to watch C and BAC trading every day.

    It's similar to FRE / FNM / LEH / AIG, and waiting to see what form the next bailout takes.

     
    #173     Feb 19, 2009

  4. Well with these "Stress tests" we could be waiting a looong time for Geithner to make a move.
     
    #174     Feb 19, 2009
  5. m22au

    m22au

    Cdntrader,

    Interesting point. Maybe it's because I am used to Paulson coming in and working a long weekend, and announcing a bailout on Sunday night.

    However I should remember that Timmy G is a different person, and obviously he is keen to take more time to work things out.



     
    #175     Feb 19, 2009
  6. I think the stress tests could/will be used as a pretext to nationalize C and BAC. They will say we didn't want to, tried every which way to work the numbers, but they both flunked the stress tests, so we had no choice but to nationalize (when they really wanted to all along...).

    Maybe they think this logic will not scare away foreign/institional investors...
     
    #176     Feb 19, 2009
  7. m22au

    m22au

    Thanks Stinkyfelix.

    Earlier in the week, the cynic in me thought that the government will not allow BAC and C to fail the 'stress test'.

    However your argument makes a lot of sense.


     
    #177     Feb 19, 2009
  8. Daal

    Daal

    Looks like JPMorgan was right and the stock market is crashing on schedule. If the lows break I got to be honest it will be though to know where the market is headed next. I came in this year being guided by the study and short a few names and long puts but at around 700 level for the SP, it feels a little undisciplined to keep pounding the same trade as the risk reward ratio gets worse and worse

    I'm inclined to hold the banks as a bet they go to near $0 and spy puts, the problem is what about all the other positions that trade very correlated to the SP500?I'm long the dollar, a bit of gold and yen, out of commodities, long a few stocks(which almost all are down). Without a strong opinion on the stock market it should be though to make big money this year

    Gary Shilling and Roubini are talking about SP500 to 600-650 based on the multiples the stock market tend to bottom, but I would need to see all their numbers before buying this theory
     
    #178     Feb 19, 2009
  9. ammo

    ammo

    hard to hold thru a non trend,and the swings are big so getting into cash occassinally isnt bad
     
    #179     Feb 19, 2009
  10. Daal

    Daal

    Financial stocks nosediving 6%, preferreds down 13% and C bonds tanking, YTM of 15% on the highest yielding, reaching junk status

    The one I own went into the red yesterday and trades at 68c on the dollar with a 5% coupon(YTM 13.3%), my short C stock hedge worked up to this point so I still show a small profit but the short is now so low I'm basically naked long the bond

    These yields seem absurd, even in worst case scenario of nationalization and say a 25c haircut for the bonds(and this scenario would destroy bank senior debt markets so its not going to happen), then they became de facto agency bonds with 5% coupons. In that event I would have a capital gain as they go to premium to par(par being 75c on the dollar)
    I think the market is nuts in leaving those yields out there
     
    #180     Feb 20, 2009