The bitter truth about Patak Trading

Discussion in 'Prop Firms' started by gmst, Aug 29, 2012.

  1. Maverick you are right. PTP doesnt cut you off until the account is negative. When a trader first starts live is the most crucial time for the trader the equity partner and the scout team. Scouts want the equity partner to know they found talent, the trader wants to prove they are not a fluke and the equity partner doesn't want to lose capital.

    Mp
     
    #151     Aug 31, 2012
  2. gmst- a scout talks to a trader getting brought up live and goes through the trading plan with them after they submit it. We do omit and edit things on a case by case basis. All traders are not created equal so to speak. Some request certain things. Our goal is to keep you live. It does nobody any good if you go through a Combine, get your deposit refunded which is what you earned, then get on a live account and proceed to lose x thousands of the equity partners (PTP) capital, only to go back to the Combine again which we provide one free after that. It's a waste of your time, TST's scouting efforts and our prop firms capital.

    Mp
     
    #152     Aug 31, 2012
  3. There is no 10 or 20 day evaluation when you are live. You get sent back when/if the account starts going in the red (below your initially starting balance). Usually this is twice your loss limit amount, but again it is case by case as we work with traders, much like a pitching coach would come out to the mound to calm his talent down who has just given up a bunch of runs.

    I will look into having the back office clarify this better on the website.

    Mp
     
    #153     Aug 31, 2012
  4. gmst

    gmst


    I explained this very clearly in point 2) in my post#3 on this thread. I can't believe I have to explain it again. Alright, lets do it one more time.

    Logic:
    Hitting 250$ on any given day is easy. But trader has to average 250$. And he will have losing days at loss limit. He will also have losing days less than loss limit. So, to compensate for these max. losses, he needs big winners and putting a trail will not let the trader get big winners. If you are trading 5 cars, 500$ translates to a 2 pt move in your favor, and then 50% trail means a 1 pt retrace. (And please don't tell me that trading 5 cars on a 50k account is over leverage and gambling. You are definitely under-risked if you are trading 1 car for 10k with such strict risk limits and such steep profit objectives.)

    I hope below example sounds reasonable to you.

    The trader needs to average 250$, his loss limit is 1000$.
    So, out of 20 days, he makes money on 14 days, loses on 6 days.
    On 2 losing days, he hits loss limit (say -950$). So, PL = -1900
    On 2 losing days, his average loss is 600$. So, PL = -1200
    On 2 losing days, his average loss is 300$. So, PL = -600
    So, total Loss = -3700

    Total PL required = 5000
    So, now from 14 winning days, he needs to make 5000+3700 = 8700

    which is 621 per day. To average 621 per day, he needs 1000$ to 1500$ days, because he will also have +200 and + 400 days. So, 500$ is not an outlier for him, a 1500$ is an outlier for him. To get this 1500$ outlier, 50% trail kicking at 500$ won't cut it.

    I don't know what else I can do to make anyone understand it. Its so simple.

    Finally, why so much stickiness with 50% trail limit kicking in at 500$ level and why do you bother - you are not Patak. Right?

    I bet if Patak makes the trail kicking limit to 1000$, it will result into a increase in the success rate of its traders. Of course Patak won't make it if Patak's true aim is to let people scalp so that they can make money in comms.

    Enough waste of my time on this thread. We are going round in circles.
     
    #154     Aug 31, 2012
  5. Mav,


    Don't take the free drink! You will forever be accused of compensation from TST!!!


    LOL!
     
    #155     Aug 31, 2012
  6. volente_00

    volente_00


    So why back traders after 2-4 profitable weeks of sim then ?
     
    #156     Aug 31, 2012
  7. gmst

    gmst

    #157     Aug 31, 2012
  8. Maverick74

    Maverick74

    #158     Aug 31, 2012
  9. Maverick74

    Maverick74

    They are not. I'll bet you a dime to a dollar that less then 1% of the guys that do that combine make it on their first try.
     
    #159     Aug 31, 2012
  10. Maverick74

    Maverick74

    Honestly, that ship has sailed. I doubt most of these guys believe we ever landed on the Moon. :)
     
    #160     Aug 31, 2012