Ten year live track record? Bwahahaha. Come on dude, there are like 6 hedge funds that have that out of a pool of 10k. Let's try to keep this serious. And why is a guy with a 10 year live track record looking for backing? Never mind, don't answer.
Trading ES with $300 to $400 intraday margin is ridiculous. Does it not make more sense pay $300 to have access to substantially more capital and actually be able to trade with a realistic risk profile? With the 150K acccount, you may trade 15 contracts, but you don`t have to. I certainly would not. Even with a 60/40 split, you are very well compensated for your efforts. After 15K in profits, you get 70%. After 30K in profits, you get 80%. I was initially VERY skeptical towards Patak, but from what I can tell, the operation is legitimate, although the performance requirements are very hard. I will try the Combine later this fall and I will be the first to admit if I should change my mind and discover something I`m not seeing right now.
unless we're talking millions, all i can say is that there is no such thing as a successful "futures" trader that needs to be backed with a little 50K account.... think about it....
also, maverick they don't realize that trading 10+ years ago is not the same as trading today. So your 10 year track record does not mean shit FYI. something along the lines of past performance does not represent future success? anyone ever heard of that??
Hello everyone, I wanted to jump on this thread to clear some things up and get the accurate information out there about TopstepTrader and Patak Trading Partners. First, I want to quickly address that Maverick is NOT on payroll or compensated in any way. I do not know Maverick, although from what I have read it sounds like he has a strong understanding of the trading industry, how to be successful as a trader, and the reasoning for starting a trading group like we have. Now to the main points that began this thread: gmst- many traders (including myself for my first three years) struggle in this business and lose a large amount of their capital (personally $90k) along the learning curve to building a consistent, profitable, disciplined trading methodology. This business is very difficult to learn and develop in, as to do this you must have real money on the line. We created TopstepTrader to soften the blow and give traders time to develop profitable strategies in a simulated environment where you are held accountable for your actions. Now to quickly answer your initial posts: We do not encourage our recruits or funded traders to trade more. We actually encourage them to trade less, and wait for market alignment and recognize market state before initiating a trade. Patience is something we push, as patience helps build discipline, and discipline helps you stay in the game. For funded traders, there are no platform or desk fees. Additionally, we cover platform costs, access to our Squawk Radio and Breaking News Service, and provide funded traders with a professional trading coach. Our business model is not centered around making money on commissions. We make money when our traders make money. Next, we do not encourage scalping. We encourage capital preservation, knowing when to shut it down and staying disciplined while you trade. We do not require people trade any certain way. Our evaluation criteria looks for disciplined traders regardless of trading strategy or style. Also, if people do not feel their trading style fits into our standard evaluation criteria, they are able to choose their own Combine objective. Lastly, the points or RULES you address in our trading plan that funded traders must follow, are sound discipline principles all traders should follow. Lets remember if someone is looking for funding, they may be struggling in areas that are keeping them from producing. We try to break bad habits and instill good, sound discipline through repetition. Much like sports, how practice makes permanent. To end, we are an OPTION or an ALTERNATIVE for traders.. Traders should have options or alternatives to learn or develop rather than just put money with a brokerage or clearing firm. Those who come to our program understand my points above and understand that you must be accountable for your actions if you ever plan on moving forward in this business. I am on our Squawk Radio broadcast every Tuesday and Thursday at 12 CST. ANYONE is welcome to ask us ANY question about why we do what we do, etc. I will be in this forum from time to time, as will a couple members of our Scout Team. We are all available to clear up any confusion or answer any questions. TopstepTrader is a new concept that many may not completely understand at first glance. That is completely understandable. Therefore we are transparent and we do answer questions that help people move forward in this industry. Finally, to get some pressure off of Maverick, I have started a new thread to answer any questions anyone has about TopstepTrader or Patak Trading Partners. http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=248456 Michael Patak CEO & Director of Scouting TST chatroom âNebraskaâ
Hello! Maverick posted earlier in this thread: "And as far as I know, Michael still trades on the floor of the CBOT in the Dow futures pit. His acronym is PTK. He's been down there for over 10 years. Coincidentally, I use to trade in that pit as well back in the day." A bit odd that you don't know who Maverick is! But that is not the point. You don't have to respond to this. Lets get to the point. What is the basis for your business model? It is my understanding that it is partnering with successful traders on a profit split basis? If yes, you should get them lowest comms possible. The money you are making from Combines is enough for all the operational expenses. Don't you agree? If you don't agree, kindly provide some numbers. That will help assuage doubts. Your rules "clearly" are designed to promote scalping. I demonstrated this using numbers in my post#2 and post#3 on this thread. I "request" you to kindly read those posts with care and correct me using numbers. Because your words lose their weight, when numbers are pointing otherwise. Looking forward to a healthy conversation! Cheers.
GMST, great thread -thanks for posting. Besides the issue, this thread is an awesome troll fest and I'm glad the moderators view it as entertaining (I think) and keeping it alive. Mr. Patak started another thread, I posted the first repsonse (very respectful) with my two main questions I asked before. It's kind of odd carrying on with this issue for so long on the internet. Usually with my other online communication, we talk about things like restruants and how dumb Citi bankers are (not true) Mike Also -"passionate futures traders" (one star) http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=232163&highlight=patak
Good questions.. Let me first address Maverick and the trading floor. There 3 thousand or more (give or take) traders on the floor. I've been in the DOW pit for over 10 years. Traders on the floor know people by their badge... badge acronyms are either 3 or 4 characters max.. So very slim chance I would know Maverick as I knew everyone by their badge and that was typically on people I traded with in the DOW. gmst- What is the basis for your business model? MP- To educate, develop and financially back traders ready to trade TODAYS market. If you are considering a career in trading, looking to increase your market and self knowledge or just putting the final tweaks on your strategy we want you with us. We are talent scouts for trading. gmst- It is my understanding that it is partnering with successful traders on a profit split basis? If yes, you should get them lowest comms possible. Yes this is what we are doing. This is a prove it business. Once you start profiting doors open with us. Combine and Live traders trade very very light. You earn your opportunity for doors to open here it is not given to you. If you are trading an excessive amount and looking for less comm, we will look into getting membership rates for your account. This is a similar model as many if not all prop firms here in Chicago. gmst- The money you are making from Combines is enough for all the operational expenses. Don't you agree? If you don't agree, kindly provide some numbers. That will help assuage doubts. The Combine has a fully refundable deposit. This holds all recruits accountable for their actions and adds skin in the game for them to take it serious while gaining the closest feel to trading a live market like they would in their personal account. Those in the Combine that complete the requirements found here: http://www.topsteptrader.com/deposit are given the opportunity to receive a full refund (and go their merry way at absouletly no cost to them) or roll their deposit over to a new Combine and use the expereince from the prior Combine to develop and move themselves forward to a profitable trading stategy/methodology. gmst- Your rules "clearly" are designed to promote scalping. I demonstrated this using numbers in my post#2 and post#3 on this thread. I "request" you to kindly read those posts with care and correct me using numbers. Because your words lose their weight, when numbers are pointing otherwise. Our rules are not rules but discipline principles we want our traders following and what we have seen works for successfully trader. We are on the trading floor. The scouts and traders apart of our company have many years of experience in seeing what works for trading and what doesnât. This does not encourage scalping. I hope that clears it up a bit. I am open to further discussion/questions. Michael
Agreed Combine and Live traders trade very very light. Still, if you pass on the lowest commissions (still charging full exchange fees) I calculated and showed in my post# 2 that every trader on average will benefit between 250 and 554.40 USD per month depending on 50k or 100k account. For a particular trader with 150k account, benefits from saved comms would be >750 USD per month. That calculation assumed very very light trading (precisely 2 round trips per day). For a trader who goes live and trades for 1 year a 150k account, the amount lost due to paying higher comm = 750*12 = 9000 USD. Obviously after 3-4 months of live trading, this trader will also increase size. This calculation doesn't take increasing size into account at all. This is serious cash for a trader to forego! I am sorry but unless you decide to pass on the cheapest commissions possible to your traders, it is hard for anyone to seriously believe that your best interests are aligned with a trader's best interests. My suggestion is to dramatically reduce your commissions, if you want to give a fairer deal to the trader. Cheers. Yes, Combines are refundable. But, a very small fraction of people doing combines will get refunds - and you don't want to highlight that point. Not a good business practice if you just highlight what suits you and don't fairly present the other side of the information - especially in the world of internet, social media and open communication. I requested you to offer some numbers. But you responded with your marketing pitch! Your marketing pitch is very good, I must admit. I was hoping you would give me a serious response where you could have taken the points I made in my post#3 on this thread and refuted them point by point. But you have disappointed me. You know at Wharton - we have a saying. Your words don't count unless backed by numbers! And all over the world, there is a saying - Talk is cheap. So, please for God's sake, confront me on my numbers. You are the CEO, you should have access to all the numbers. Please show me where I am erring in my logic. Btw, Congratulations on becoming an ET sponsor. This will give you a good platform to clearly put forward value proposition of your firm and silence your doubters (like me ) by offering a point-by point response. Cheers.
Hi, Thanks for your good words and support. I have been bruised by the numerous attacks on myself and my intelligence on this thread I will tell you how I got involved into all this back and forth with Maverick and his followers. One ET friend who had helped me earlier on couple of occasions told me he is going to join Patak. I thought lets take a re-look, maybe Patak is a good futures prop firm. And then it all started. Personally, this thread has been the biggest waste of my time during my entire ET career . This thread has only turned a lot of ET posters against me and I am the anti-hero in minds of many ET guys now. However, now I am so involved in this issue that I am actively researching, running numbers to see if Patak's model make sense for traders and post here. I am considering (I am sure to the delight of Mr. Patak and many others) to cut my loss pretty soon as far as this thread is concerned. Maybe I will post for a day or two more on this thread and then move on to better things. I just hope that I have been able to show the not so positive side (that firms typically don't want traders to see) to some people here. EDIT: And yes a special salute to moderators for working to keep the thread clean from personal insults. Thank You Moderators!