the orginal stu was not even american. are you? on what basis do you make such misrepresentations of american history and jurisprudence. The establishment clause did no such thing... at the time of our founding. The Supreme Ct did not start applying the establishment clause until 1947. Initially, the establishment clause was required by representatives of the states to ensure that the Feds would not establish one church as the national church because the states already had ties to churches.
Exactly so. It is abjectly absurd to argue, because the Bible draws on already existing rules and laws that had been around in one form or another for thousand years and more, the Bible must be the source or foundation for those same rules and laws. That sort of religious argument is so wooden it does no more than constitute a severe fire risk.
Washington, January 1, 1802 Gentlemen,--The affectionate sentiment of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist Association, give me the highest satisfaction. My duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, and in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing. Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature would "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church and State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.Thomas Jefferson
Bacon proves that America is a Christian nation (Credit: bonchan via Shutterstock) Bryan Fischer, the Director of Issue Analysis for Government and Public Policy at the American Family Association, hosts a daily radio show called “Focal Point,” described on its website as the “home of muscular Christianity,” which sounds very tough. On Monday’s show, Fischer presented indisputable proof that the United States is a Christian nation: “Do you want one single item of proof that America is a Christian nation? And not a Jewish nation? And not an Islamic nation? One single bit of proof is all you need. We freely allow restaurants and grocery stores to sell and to serve bacon. That can only happen in a Christian country. You can’t do that in Israel. I’ve been to Israel. You go into the hotel to eat dinner; you go into a restaurant… you can’t get bacon there! You’re not gonna get it! Because it is a Jewish country. You go to a Muslim country, you are not going to get pork; you’re not going to get bacon; you’re not going to get a ham sandwich anywhere. Why? Because it is a Muslim land. The sheer fact that we clearly allow the consumption of bacon is absolute proof that we are in fact a Christian nation.” Other than, like, my wanting to be included in what constitutes the United States, that argument has me sold! JOANNA ROTHKOPF
http://www.heritage.org/research/re...changed-church-state-law-policy-and-discourse ... Throughout his public career, including two terms as President, Jefferson pursued policies incompatible with the "high and impregnable" wall the modern Supreme Court has erroneously attributed to him. For example, he endorsed the use of federal funds to build churches and to support Christian missionaries working among the Indians. The absurd conclusion that countless courts and commentators would have us reach is that Jefferson routinely pursued policies that violated his own "wall of separation." Jefferson's wall, as a matter of federalism, was erected between the national and state governments on matters pertaining to religion and not, more generally, between the church and all civil government. In other words, Jefferson placed the federal government on one side of his wall and state governments and churches on the other. The wall's primary function was to delineate the constitutional jurisdictions of the national and state governments, respectively, on religious concerns, such as setting aside days in the public calendar for prayer, fasting, and thanksgiving. Evidence for this jurisdictional or structural understanding of the wall can be found in both the texts and the context of the correspondence between Jefferson and the Danbury Baptist Association.[5] President Jefferson had been under Federalist attack for refusing to issue executive proclamations setting aside days for national fasting and thanksgiving, and he said he wanted to explain his policy on this delicate matter. He told Attorney General Levi Lincoln that his response to the Danbury Baptists "furnishes an occasion too, which I have long wished to find, of saying why I do not proclaim fastings & thanksgivings, as my predecessors [Presidents Washington and Adams] did." The President was eager to address this topic because his Federalist foes had demanded religious proclamations and then smeared him as an enemy of religion when he declined to issue them. Jefferson's refusal, as President, to set aside days in the public calendar for religious observances contrasted with his actions in Virginia where, in the late 1770s, he framed "A Bill for Appointing Days of Public Fasting and Thanksgiving" and, as governor in 1779, designated a day for "publick and solemn thanksgiving and prayer to Almighty God." How can Jefferson's public record on religious proclamations in Virginia be reconciled with the stance he took as President of the United States? The answer, I believe, is found in the principle of federalism. Jefferson firmly believed that the First Amendment, with its metaphoric "wall of separation," prohibited religious establishments by the federal government only. Addressing the same topic of religious proclamations, Jefferson elsewhere relied on the Tenth Amendment, arguing that because "no power to prescribe any religious exercise...has been delegated to the General [i.e., federal] Government[,] it must then rest with the States, as far as it can be in any human authority." He sounded the same theme in his Second Inaugural Address, delivered in March 1805: In matters of religion, I have considered that its free exercise is placed by the constitution independent of the powers of the general [i.e., federal] government. I have therefore undertaken, on no occasion, to prescribe the religious exercises suited to it; but have left them, as the constitution found them, under the direction and discipline of State or Church authorities acknowledged by the several religious societies. These two statements were, in essence, Jefferson's own commentary on the Danbury letter, insofar as they grappled with identical issues. Thus, as a matter of federalism, he thought it inappropriate for the nation's chief executive to proclaim days for religious observance; however, he acknowledged the authority of state officials to issue religious proclamations. In short, Jefferson's "wall" was erected between the federal and state governments on matters pertaining to religion.
The Constitution honors the Christian Sabbath. The President was given 10 days to sign a bill into law. The counting of the 10 days does not include the Sabbath. This is found in Article 1, Section 7, and Clause 2 which in part follows: “If any Bill shall not be returned by the President within ten Days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the Same shall be a Law,” When the Constitution was completed on September 17, 1787, it was signed by the delegates then to be ratified by the states. The delegates signed the Constitution in the “Year of our Lord.” This is a direct reference to Christianity. This is found in Article 7 which in part follows: “Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independence of the United States of America the Twelfth In witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names, GO WASHINGTON–Presidt. and deputy from Virginia” The Paris Peace Treaty of 1783: Click to read The Paris Peace Treaty was the document which formally ended the Revolution and granted the United States independence from Great Britain. In a real sense, the United States formally became a nation on September 3, 1783. When the United States became a nation, it was done in the “name of the most holy and undivided Trinity.” The preamble to this Treat states it is based upon the “Holy and undivided Trinity.” The concept of the holy Trinity is unique to Christianity. This statement means the United States was founded on the Christian faith. The complete Preamble follows: “In the name of the most holy and undivided Trinity” The Treaty then ends just like the Constitution with a statement it is being signed in the “Year of our Lord.” The witnesses representing the United States were John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, John Jay and D. Hartley. The section in part follows: “In witness whereof we the undersigned, their ministers plenipotentiary, have in their name and in virtue of our full powers, signed with our hands the present definitive treaty and caused the seals of our arms to be affixed thereto.Done at Paris, this third day of September in the year of our Lord, one thousand seven hundred and eighty-three” D. HARTLEY JOHN ADAMS B. FRANKLIN JOHN JAY http://internationalcopsforchrist.com/blog/?page_id=78
http://toptenproofs.com/article_christianheritage.php Most people don't even know that the term “Separation of Church and State” does not exist anywhere in the Constitution. That term was used by Thomas Jefferson in a personal letter he wrote to the Danbury Baptist Association of Connecticut on January 1, 1802. Liberal judges and lawyers lately have seized on that one phrase he used that one time in that personal letter to create a false perception of what the Constitution actually says. Jefferson wrote that letter to the Danbury Baptists in response to a letter they first wrote him on October 7, 1801, expressing concern that the government might try to infringe on religious freedoms one day. His response letter attempted to assure them that would not happen because there was a “wall of separation between Church and State”. He used those words for the first time to say there was a wall keeping the government from infringing on religious expression. He wasn't saying the government can't itself engage in religious expression. Let me prove it. Remember, Jefferson first used those words in that personal letter on January 1, 1802, while he was President. On December 3, 1803, nearly 2 years AFTER he wrote that letter, President Jefferson, as an official Presidential act, ordered the extension of the 1787 Act of Congress that designated areas of Federal land “for the sole use of Christian Indians and the Moravian Brethren Missionaries for the civilizing of the Indians and promoting Christianity”. That's right, the actual language that Jefferson ordered to take place was “promoting Christianity” by the Federal Government. He ordered the same governmental promotion of Christianity to the Wyandotte Indians in 1806 and even again in 1807 to the Cherokee Indians. So ask yourself logically, when Thomas Jefferson used those words “separation of Church and State” in that letter, do you really he meant a Nativity Scene can't sit on government property or a judge can't hang a picture of the 10 Commandments on his wall? As President, Jefferson ordered 3 times that federal land be used for (in the official language) “promoting Christianity”.