The Best Commission Rate Ever

Discussion in 'Prop Firms' started by MaxGain, Mar 30, 2003.

  1. MaxGain


    ...won't make you a goddam dime when what's working for you now stops working later.

    Are you scrambling to save that extra 1/10-2/10th cent? Why? Are you worried your current trading methods are so marginal that low costs are the only hope you have?

    That's not how to make money. There's a world of firms with great rates. Everyone should strive for a good deal, but if commission cost becomes your deciding factor, you deserve to lose every last cent you have left in your account....and BELIEVE will!

    The market is evolving exponentially, thanks to ruthless competition and automation. That means your strategies will lose effectiveness far faster today than they did even five years ago. When that happens, your firm better be able to offer you something more than a good rate.
  2. Oh....I could not agree more.

    So many newbies do not treat this like a business. Being that we use the internet and have a built in inheret lag...every nanosecond counts. one click entries and fast reporting is essential.

    I trade the the ES and 1 tick is worth $12.50 per contract. It would just take a few ticks of better execution to pay a little more for speed and reliability.

    Michael B.
  3. Maxgain, but all of the popular prop firms offer the same things.

    They are all teaching basically the same strategies.

    They all offer you the software platform, get you in with a capital contribution, mark up your commish, and you take it from there.

    Rates (even .001) are the only difference between em (and not much difference at that), so why not make it the deciding factor?

    Rates have come down alot, and all the firms are fighting a price war to get traders. There is only one explanation for this.. Handling clearing is a commodity business. If there was real value in the prop firm's propietary software, or training, or whatever - they would be able to charge higher commish and get away with it.

    You hear about how great Hammer is.. If it was as great as advertised they would charge $1000/mo for it and you know what.. People would gladly pay it.

  4. rs7


    in my experience, speed of execution is different with different platforms (not so much NYSE, but Nasdaq). A fraction of a cent is meaningless in commissions. Yet a fraction of a second can be very significant.
  5. Martillo


    If commissions won't make a difference, please send me some cash....

    Of course its important to have low transaction costs. Especially in this market were you can not really hold for bigger moves, this means you gotta trade more, which means higher commissions....

    I don't know who started this treath, but you probably are one of those firm owners who's out there to churn and rotate traders but know shhhtt about trading.

    THere is a reason why commissions went down and its even tougher to make good money like before when commissions were expensive...
  6. MaxGain


    Master of Comprehension,

    Did I say commissions don't make a difference?? NO. I said that commissions can't be the deciding factor.

    It's sickening seeing all the traders on ET (most of whom are good people) get sucked into the "cost is more important than strategy and execution" crap.

    For a guy like you, it's obvious that commissions are everything. In my experience, people like you are the guys who scratch by, hoping that their month-end rebate will cover their expenses and leave enough for milk and bread.

    It seems obvious that your strategy is so hairline marginal that a 1/10th cent cost difference could put you on the street. Is that how you propose to make a long-term living??????

    What the hell happens when peoples average holding period is reduced to 1/2 of one cent, and your risk of loss becomes 5-10 times greater than your opportunity for gain??? Then you can flush your worthless strategy down the toilet with the rest of the sh!t in your post.

    Wake up for Christ's sake, and reassess what will make you successful in 12-24 months. Pretty soon, it won't matter if you're trading for FREE!!!! As the market becomes increasingly efficient the ONLY ONLY ONLY thing that will matter is how much of a technological and strategic edge you have.

    P.S. I do wish you spite of you.
  7. MaxGain


    I hear ya my friend. Most prop firms are a dime a dozen, and I expect most, even some of the biggest ones, will shutter their windows for good in a year or so.

    All the over-publicized strategies (opening only orders, pairs trading, blah, blah, blah) that prop owners preach are doomed to fail for the masses. Ignore everything I say if you want, but listen to this: THERE IS NO PUBLICLY PROMOTED TRADING STRATEGY THAT WILL EVER SUCCEED LONG-TERM FOR MORE THAN 1 OUT OF 1000 PROFESSIONAL TRADERS. NOT ONE!!!!!!!!!

    Your best edge is the one that you create but don't reveal. Your second best edge is the technology to implement that strategy better than your competitors.

    I agree 100% with your point about Hammer and similar software. If hammer was as great as some people (a lot of people don't like it) claim it is, then Andover wouldn't have to pimp itself with predatory pricing.
  8. I dont want to come off like a smart ass here, but it is not that difficult for someone to make a living trading. At <.005 commish and prop firm leverage, you really have to take some stupid risks to not make some $ by the end of the month. Geez, follow S&P futures, the favorite prop firm strategy ALONE will get you that far.

    Some people don't realize the truth and its right in front of their face - LOW RATES IS YOUR EDGE! I would argue any newbie I were to train would have a 80% chance of making a living trading if they were paying .005/share, but may have only a 10% chance of success if they were paying .012/share.

    Who gives a shit if someone says "well your strategy wont get you ahead in the long term if you are concerned about tenths of pennies". The goal is to make a living in this business and low rates makes that possible.

    As far as the prop firms, you see a prop firm going out of business and there you'll find some cocky prick owners that think they can predict tops/bottoms and throw in 10,000 shares at a time.
    Running a prop firm is a slam dunk good business for anyone who knows the first thing about trading. There is always an endless supply of people who want to make their "riches" playing the market and 100 years from now, it will be the same way, just as it was 100 yrs ago.I'm gonna start one as soon as I can get some more capital together!
  9. One often searches for efficiently composed words, and you stated what usually takes paragraphs to state in under one sentence.

    The markets are dynamic in nature, and we thrive on that dynamism.

    The markets evolve in an exponential manner due to the intelligence of the participants, the sharp shifts in economic realities and the unpredictable nature of fickle wealthy individuals and countries who basically start these Eliott Wave counts through their huge Currency movements, which translate themselves throughout all trading vehicles (Bonds, Treasuries, Euros, Equities, Futures, Precious Metals, etc.)

    Strategies loosing effectiveness are just like Options contracts namely they are waisting assets which over time loose their intrinsic value and trade in the secondary markets like new. Books, seminars, software and other means of selling what made someone else their fortune, makes it for them again when they sell it on the mash potato circuits.

    Tough environment, huh..
  10. Uh, you did.

    so, what's your point?

    --that prop shops are what?
    --that trading is not the opportunity that its portrayed as being?
    #10     Apr 1, 2003