Wouldn't have seen this as 2cents is on ignore but drmarkan quoted him. It is utter bullshit. The Japanese Ministry of Education to this day glosses over the events of WWII and Japan's role in it and the atrocities committed by them, including in Nanking. The far right makes a big stink anytime textbook reform is brought up, and nothing if little changes. Most Japanese high school students graduate knowing very little of their country's role in The Great Pacific War as they call it, and certainly nothing of the atrocities. 2cents claims he lives in Japan. He is clearly out of touch with the pulse of his host nation and residents.
my wife and therefore half my family is japanese (and not from the bombed areas, in case anybody thought that wld be a factor...)... your irrelevant... that Japan still be in denial is a fact... has nothing to do with the argument at hand... your insistence in playing this against whether it was justified and HOW, for the US to bomb NAGASAKI in the manner it was done, only shows your lack of proper arguments... and for avoidance of doubt, nobody gives a rat's arse who u ignore or not... omae wa yaku tatazu nounashi yarou
Pardon me for asking, but WHAT THE HELL WAS THIS THREAD ABOUT???? Was the second bomb necessary? It caused them to surrender, great. Is japanese history MASSIVELY revisionist? You bet, BIG time. Were the soviets hugely fearfull of this? Nope. Did doug mcarthur quash the 6.5mm military round? You bet. Do the chinese like the japanese ? Nope, big time. Did it have something to do with the war, the rape of nanjing? You bet. Did einstein dissaprove of the goose stepping fools, lining up to do their masters bidding for a wage? Yup. What was this thread about again?
talk less and disprove it then... that some military leaders shld put forward any form of silly arguments / rationale to continue to fight to death no matter the hard realities of the moment is the staple of all wars... thats why they can't be given ultimate decisional authority... re-read my post & MacArthur etc, Japan knew at that point that it was checkmated on all counts and under a torrent of fire that nothing would stop... if they were going to go for ultimate sacrifice ANYWAY, its not a 2nd bomb dropped on CIVILIANS that was going to change that... haven't read but may... Hogan seems to be a good feel-good-america storyteller from what i cld glean http://www.historycooperative.org/c...cooperative.org/journals/ahr/105.1/br_90.html but not much of a sharp critical thinker... if you like stories... there are tons like that v.unsurprisingly http://www.mayorsforpeace.org/engli...ng 2002.pdf#search="Michael J. Hogan critics" however, to repeat, my point is specifically about why the 2nd drop at 3 days' interval and not, say, 7, considering the objective situation Japan was in on 9th morning as the Soviets got going... a much uneasier read for you might be "Hiroshima in America: a Half Century of Denial http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Jay_Lifton#Studies_of_war_and_atrocity_survivors http://www.amazon.com/Hiroshima-Ame...ef=pd_sim_dbs_b_4/102-0424745-9112167?ie=UTF8 why is that do u think? they suddenly thought that perhaps if u had 2, then u may have 3, possibly more? whereas getting hit once only with a new weapon they too had a research program on leaves the doubt that your assaillant may not be able to build a 2nd one?... or cld it be that the emperor just made the call that with amazingly devastating nuclear fire on Hiroshima and more to be expected, unstoppable carpet-(fire)bombing over Japan for months, the loss of the last-stand type Iwojima & Okinawa battles, and that same morning the invasion from the Soviets underway, it was time to call it a day? why in your view could Truman not afford to wait a few more days for Japan leadership to have all the (relevant) facts re Hiroshima? your losing your sense of objectivity now... why is that? questionning your version of the truth and of the ever-noble purpose of America the Beautiful is "hating"? America is by nature always above any of those bad things? Pretending to put America on trial is a crime? wake up...
with regard to the large-scale human experimentation charge, motivated by the necessity in a time of war, of maintaining a strong & lasting strategic advantage over the Soviets viz the use and development of any effective countermeasures to the use of nuclear weapons / radiation poisoning: . as you would be aware, there is a context, in terms of the status of our knowledge of radiation effects, pre-1945 and post-1945. this is not the place nor the right medium to 'build' that case, the ICC will, one day or the other, provide that forum, but just a few elements of context fyi: http://www.eh.doe.gov/ohre/roadmap/achre/report.html Advisory Committee on Human Radiation Experiments, Final Report. i particularly RECOMMEND a quick read of http://www.eh.doe.gov/ohre/roadmap/achre/chap5.html chap 2: The Manhattan District Experiments in 1945 in the months leading up to Hiroshima http://www.eh.doe.gov/ohre/roadmap/histories/0457/0457toc.html John Gofman's accounts, also in Nuclear Witnesses compiled by Leslie Freeman http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpa...8F932A05752C0A964948260&sec=&pagewanted=print along with other witnesses' key accounts (and much more here fyi http://www.doh.wa.gov/hanford/publications/other/selbib.html#VC5b1 on Hanford notably http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanford_Site http://www.mbe.doe.gov/me70/manhattan/come_through.htm) . as regards the relationship with the Soviets at this very point in time: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity_site#Test_results http://www.milnet.com/nukeweap/hiroshima/hiroshima.htm Thus the rationale for using the weapon was clearly decided before Potsdam and based upon the intelligence figures prior to the nearly 500,000 Japanese troop figure. The new intelligence received while at Potsdam only served to stiffen Truman's resolve. The advisors and Truman's stated rationale was: "...in the hope of (1) avoiding the need for an invasion with resulting casualties that by any standard would be of intimidating proportions, (2) minimizing the USSR's postwar leverage, and (3) not having to confront debate over concessions on the terms of unconditional surrender--was the driving force in the minds of the US leadership team before Potsdam, and before the acquisition of intelligence showing much-larger-than- expected Japanese forces on Kyushu." The fact that Truman was looking ahead at postwar dealings with the Soviet Union was an intelligent and rational piece of reasoning, one that a wartime President should have made regardless of the type of weapon being used. And while there was no evidence that the Germans had given the Japanese enough information for their own nuclear program, it is clear that their desire for the newest and best weapons could put them on the track to nuclear weapons. A decade later, the ease in which U.S. security was breached by the Soviet Union made it clear the nuclear secrets would not remain secrets for long. Truman's choices were few and he clearly chose the quickest route to ending the war on basis of balancing U.S. and Japanese lives as well as the unknown conditions the next six to twelve months would bring. that would form the basis, at a high level... i have little doubt that a non-American INDEPENDENT jury would find against the US in this instance, ie that the use of a second nuclear ordnance over Nagasaki, in full cognizance of the extraordinary lethal and poisonous after-effects to be expected over unknown number of civilians, only 3 days after Hiroshima, was RECKLESS at a minimum, and as amply documented by great Americans themselves, couldn't in the circumstances be expected to achieve any worthwhile military objective... and even less so where Hiroshima had failed... but as i said above, the evidence implies that 'higher' worthwhile strategic objectives were indeed met, thanks to this unique plutonium experiment, complementing the unique Hiroshima uranium experiment... see you at the ICC, or as i said in another thread http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1184719&highlight=buyin#post1184719