The Argument Against Creation

Discussion in 'Religion and Spirituality' started by exGOPer, Jan 23, 2018.

  1. tomorton


    We post. Therefore we exist.
    #11     Jan 26, 2018
    jem likes this.
  2. and i suddenly farted today so loud my cat woke up!
    #12     Jan 26, 2018
  3. There`s No time, no space, no place, etc.. for God.God is everything.

    The sensations.To experience sensations."God" itself is a static substance.Do you wanna be static forever??
    #13     Jan 26, 2018
  4. The real problem perhaps would be, after solving/ finding a solvable "foreseeable First cause", there should be always "another First cause that causes the currently already resolved First cause" to be resolved, whether it is a solvable or unsolvable one, simply a never-ending process!


    #14     Jan 26, 2018
    exGOPer likes this.
  5. exGOPer


    I am aware of the Spinozian argument, however, it's still a concept, a belief either speculated or transferred from others. How do you know your concept is true?
    #15     Jan 26, 2018
  6. exGOPer


    Exactly, infinite regress, logic is collapsing there.
    #16     Jan 26, 2018
  7. For me it`s either a concept, but i know masters who experienced that(some traditions call it "samadhi" - death experience).Life, in other words, is experienced through you, but you think you are 'exGOPer'.But when you experience samadhi you`ll see the real guy behind the 'exGOPer'.And that guy is EVERYTHING - the field, the collective counsciousness, whatever you call it.No concepts, no me and you, no others.It`s quite a big surprise to find it out, they say.You also find out, that, you`ve always been, you are and you`ll always be.

    No reason to doubt them, as they say the same thing all the time.

    Creation also does not exist without you.What you see:world, universe, trees,, are also experienced, sensed, not visualized.
    #17     Jan 26, 2018
  8. exGOPer


    I am aware of those concepts, Advaita Vedanta is one of the fields I researched. Shaivism also has similar concepts but I find tantra concepts rather unnecessary. The strange thing is that people who do experience such states actually call it the state of 'not knowing' because the 'seer' disappears so they do not even make the claim that they 'know' and they say that it is not an experience to be had. The state of samadhi would not lead to see any guy, it would lead me to a place where there is no 'I am' other than a mind in a body where the mind itself is unreal and it's all based on something that is unmanifested but eternal.

    Actually, one need not even go that way, one can actually contemplate this logically. A good place would be Nagarjuna's Mulamadhyamakakarika which was kind of Wittgenstein's Tractatus but even better for it asked questions beyond cognition.

    And this can even be contemplated scientifically where in microscopic physics standard laws collapse and it's all mental from there. The sustenance of matter itself is based on perception.
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2018
    #18     Jan 26, 2018
  9. Yeah, i mean "the real guy", by that i mean the real you, who`s always been.And yet they say they see the exGOPer, or the fordewind for a moment, laughing:"what the hell, it was not me, actually"...something along them lines.

    You cannot contemplate this logically, as there`s no wordly word to explain that.Everything you try to explain - is immediatly a concept.Samadhi state has no concepts.
    #19     Jan 26, 2018
    exGOPer likes this.
  10. exGOPer


    Remarkably, science or at least some physicists are coming to the same conclusion
    #20     Jan 26, 2018
    fordewind likes this.