This is a continuation of the "Hiring a cofounder" thread on the "Options" forum, you guys are programmers and unless you lived in the woods, must have heard of the concept of "iterations". Previous thread was just that (and it was preceded by others along the approximately same subject). So please don't treat this one like the end (or start) of the world, or some Waterfall recipe for going from rags to rich. But it IS an iteration. First, lemme clarify my idea: 1) I'm paying $1000 / month to a cofounder. 2) Please, don't be a poor guy (employee) and ask or dream of those money entering your rags pockets. 3) If you're gonna be my COFOUNDER and not another commodity, then you'll have to at least double up on what I do. That's all for now (until next iteration). For the moment, I'm putting $1000 / month in an idea because at the same time I HAVE the money and I BELIEVE in it. If you have an idea and you're preparing to back it up in HARD CURRENCY, I'd love to hear it and tell you about my idea too. If not, that's no problem, you're just not ready for the commitment level I'm looking for. Think about it as way to weed out the undesirables while retaining the opportunities: a) VCs start at $1M ideas, at least $100k of your own investment to get there. b) Angels pay $100k but you won't get to them if you don't invest yourself in the $10k. c) Me (let's be frank and call it Rags): I'm paying $10k. This means you're gonna have to start at $1k (as my title says). There's a series of Radio Yerevan jokes which apply to my threads: Q (Yuri asking Radio Yerevan): "Is it true that a startup accelerator is paying $1000 / month to Igor, the first employee"? A (Radio Yerevan): "Yes it's true, only it's not Igor, it's Yuri, it's not getting them but giving them and it's not an employee but the company founder". I'm gonna refine this further, for now I appreciate any feedback which isn't #2. (Also improvements to the joke to make it simultaneously more witty and funny at the same time).
The best deals in business are where you would take either end of the deal - that's the only way you know that it's fair. Generally that equates to 50/50 with expenses off the top. From your logic it appears that paying a low rate for programming services is to be offset by the title of cofounder. Other than appealing to the ego, what other benefit does a cofounder have? An implicit expectation as a cofounder would be to have equal weight in decision making as well as fair exposure to the upside in whatever entity you form. You state that this unicorn programmer would be willing to double your work output based upon no external criteria but upon your subjective judgement. A different tack, would be to segment your development into smaller deliverable packages and use your bootstrapping nut to pay as you go. This way you'll have to structure your development plan into explicit requirements and deliverables that will help define the scope into something manageable as well as get realistic quotes/bids about the effort required from an outside pov. Good luck in your endeavor, may you attract the perfect match for what you are attempting to accomplish.
>> Good luck in your endeavor, may you attract the perfect match for what you are attempting to accomplish. Thanks. >> From your logic it appears that paying a low rate for programming services is to be offset by the title of cofounder. Other than appealing to the ego, what other benefit does a cofounder have? This is where you lost me. I'm not paying the "cofounder" anything. He and me are BOTH paying $1000 / month (or more, or less, that's negociable) to hire a THIRD PARTY. Now, if you're my cofounder and finding yourself in this sudden, unexpected twist (you didn't read my Radio Yerevan joke), how do you still feel about that LOW rate? Here: if you enter this deal with me, I'm paying $1500 and YOU ARE PAYING TOO. So that's $3000 / month for a programmer, and I'm expecting you to keep up this rate for at least 3 years (already getting into Angel territory that is). Is it still LOW? When YOU Sprout, are PAYING it. Will you scratch your pockets for MORE? (Coze I can double up on that too). >> You state that this unicorn programmer would be willing to double your work output based upon no external criteria but upon your subjective judgement. That's also true. In addition to at least $1000 / month in HARD CURRENCY, you, the unicorn programmer I may or may not associate myself with, is also going to put up at least the 4 hours of programming I'm putting every day. I do those after going out from the 9 (labor) + 2 (commute) hours of concentration camp (a.k.a. The Office), the day job that requires me to sell my life and energy in exchange for just enough left so tomorrow I can start over again.
If you're #a, #b or perhaps even #c then you don't apply. At least I'm asking you not to make fun of my attempts to break free before there's no point attempting to do it anymore (god forbid you rat me to the wrong people). It's not a business, it's a prison break. And what you're dealing with is an inmate so mind your words. In: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Count_of_Monte_Cristo , think of me more as Abbé Faria than The Count.
My mistake. I misunderstood your appeal and offer. In another life I taught myself how to use computers, repair them, sell them, network them, program them and then finally got a sweet consulting gig doing the same for others. My rate in that biz was at the high $125/hr. Similarly I worked 10hrs/day, additional 2-3 at home and 2-1/2hr commute/day. The pay was good and as you can relate also a grind. There was a point where I realized being in a plush corner office with huge windows that my existence was encapsulated by interacting with machines. My attitude suffered. I focused more on the unpleasantries than the benefits. My performance suffered. I forgot that the reason I was there was by choice and failed to win with my choices. Back to your situation, why would someone choose to take the risk of being on the hook for an unproven and unbuilt algorithm?
There's calculated risk, for me at least. I'm on the hook anyways so not much to lose. I re-instate, this is not an usual *job* of digging tunnels. In the Monte Cristo analogy, hiring someone to do your tunnel is not an option. At worst it's a lone wolf job, anyone you add on it must be worth at least as much as not adding him / her (and adding the wrong people will kill you).
Do you have the alpha component (edge) figured out? If so why not do a high level design with APIs/interfaces split up into modules/components and outsource the development work to Indians, Vietnamese, Filipinos programmers. All needed is a bunch of code monkeys manufacturing lego bricks for you. If you do it right you don't have to share any intellectual property or need for domain specific knowledge.
IMHO, this is not a good idea, both of you start at an attorney and draw up partnership agreement while you two all happy, each have to pay their way. Otherwise you end up paying some guy who perhaps have no intentions of actually working on project or if he does make a program, he keeps the good one and gives you one that loses money. I been down this road before myself. The best is going at it alone and hiring college kids ad each get different areas for the programming. But am too damaged at my age and have best friend known for sixteen years and I trust him , we going into it equal, I design concepts and he programs them, I don't see it as uneven distribution cause making money people all get weird if not equal. Try to find someone who is not farther than an hour in a plane and have monthly meetings.