The #1 Skill In Selling Options

Discussion in 'Options' started by OneGlanceTrader, Oct 22, 2022.

  1. destriero

    destriero


    I'll entertain your stupidity one more time. Sure, gamma exploded. We'll use your scientific term. The problem is less that gamma exploded and more than the positions went to 100D. At 100D there is no gamma. Gamma implies leverage yet you can have exploding gamma and lose very little. Too much gamma: bad! I don't know where you got this infinite gamma nonsense, but as stated, it trades inversely-proportional to moneyness and vol.

    There are higher moments too, but they are also finite.
     
    #241     Oct 27, 2022
  2. destriero

    destriero

    What happens to gamma when vols rise? Where is peak gamma?

    I know you think it exploded but it didn't. Perhaps you're conflating with one of your recent date-nights. Vols exploded. >100 point move on VIX cash.

    Gammas drop with moneyness meaning that as the position generates delta (ITM) it loses gamma. Same with vols; as vols-rise gamma falls (singles). The problem is that they shorted figures that destroyed them on both. Gamma position as a leverage figure (same with vega).

    You also have the modality. OTM is generating gammas until it trades ATM, but it's of no comfort as it trades ITM and gamma falls bc you're still generating deltas (and vols) against you position.

    It's mostly the sign and magnitude of the exposure. Gamma peaks ATM so you can imagine when complex spreads and combo go deep ITM. Now it's neither gamma nor vega that killed the account but the delta position.

    Microstructure/panic ruled all. Attempted flow in flies was met with a "5x95" price market.

    Someone mentioned bear risk-reversals. Some people were spared in long RRs bc the vol on the calls also ballooned. Big losses nonetheless. Vol-smile was flat to call-leaning pre-'87 crash.

    The vega and gamma pos of a 100D option is zero.
     
    #242     Oct 27, 2022
  3. TheDawn

    TheDawn

    Told you in theory yes, but not in practical trading. In practice, the price never reaches 1D (it's 1D standing for delta of 1 not 100D) so DITM that the gamma reaches zero no matter how much of a smile there is because IV always adapts and adjusts so gamma never reaches zero especially for longer-term expirations. If you look at options prices statically yes, you see gamma at two extremes are zero but in real trading, everything changes and changes dynamically in real-time to adjust to new situations. This is another point that I was making and that's why I said I don't give a fuck about delta because in real-life trading, nothing ever stands still; everything changes, whatever pricing models Black & Scholes, binomial whatever, they all go out of the door because they all assume constant IV. On Oct. 19, 1987 that Black Monday, maybe when the market dropped 20% at one point when the vol just couldn't catch up, gamma became very very low, close to zero but I highly doubt if it ever reached zero unless you have an options pricing screen with all the calls/puts from that day during the midst of the 20% price drop to prove to me.

    And to blame it on leverage is ridiculous. Options itself is a leveraged product and to say that has any bearings on the price movement is just absolutely ludicrous. And to say something like gamma which is the second derivative of price, how fast the price is changing is leverage is something that is just beyond stupidity. What are traders borrowing with gamma? LOL

    I dunno why I bother responding to this thread.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2022
    #243     Oct 27, 2022
  4. newwurldmn

    newwurldmn

    on those 100 delta calls and 100 delta puts!
     
    #244     Oct 27, 2022
    destriero likes this.
  5. newwurldmn

    newwurldmn

    the greeks are just a partial differential equation explaining a very small move in the underlying. If you want to understand a larger move, you need to expand the full Taylor series, but in reality that's not necessary as you get a close enough answer with the first, second and sometimes third order or you just reprice everything.
     
    #245     Oct 27, 2022
  6. destriero

    destriero


    You stated that gamma was not inf in practice but in theory. You're fcking delusional. Nothing that you wrote, above, makes any sense.

    You don't GAF about delta?

    Where do you buy your bearings?
     
    #246     Oct 27, 2022
  7. destriero

    destriero


    EXACTLY!! It was the short puts, pushed by the ballooning infinite gamma that never really reached 0.

    You don't really understand the meaning of infinite. Asymptotic, perhaps? We'll give you some time to look it up.
     
    #247     Oct 27, 2022
  8. TheDawn

    TheDawn

    I said gamma shows as zero in theory but not in practice. In practice, it never reaches zero and could reach infinity. Ok now I am just talking to loony bins here. I am running out of nouns/adjectives to describe stupidity and shittiness. LOL
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2022
    #248     Oct 27, 2022
  9. destriero

    destriero


    You fcking said gamma was infinite. Infinite gamma. It's right fcking there for you to see.


























    Yes, gamma is asymptotic. You fcking fool.
     
    #249     Oct 27, 2022
  10. destriero

    destriero

    So you're arguing that gamma is infinite (again, ballooning, infinite gamma) and never really gets to zero. So like 0.00000000000000000000001 to infinity?
     
    #250     Oct 27, 2022