That Islam-Bashing old British Guy Delivers Again!

Discussion in 'Religion and Spirituality' started by Rearden Metal, Feb 12, 2011.

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    #31     Feb 15, 2011
  2. Egypt does not punish it directly but does so, de facto, via laws against 'insulting Islam'.

    Oh my god! Man Ghost, please man, do me a favour and plan a trip to Egypt. Better yet, why wait until then! Ask Rearden if he has ever encountered a people who are more blasphemous than Arab. The swear term "Yelan Rabak" and "Yelan Deenak" are on the tip of the tongue of every Arab. If what you are claiming is the case, 80% of our population would be executed. :D

    Malaysia merely flogs apostates, rather than killing them.

    Again, you are intentionally mixing Arabs with other Islamic states in an attempt to mix the most radical with us and present us as mad people.

    This is not a theoretical unapplied law, like the commandment of residents of some English towns to do archery practise once a month. People have actually been executed for it.

    The population of the Arab world is 320 Million, spread between 22 Arab states, aside from Saudi Arabia and Sudan, find me one example...ONE example of someone who was flogged or executed for apostacy. One example and I will shut my mouth forever.

    Death for apostasy is not a human right violation that is the result of dictators. It has been the accepted orthodox position of islam for 1400 years. Democratic islamic states also have this law on the books. Any islamic state that has this law is simply following the accepted tenets of islam.

    I have another challenge for you, show me one Arab constitution that applies such law for apostasy and I will shut my mouth forever. You want to make a claim, you better back it, otherwise it is a cheap attempt to simply smear. Honestly man.

    I do not know the position of Hezbollah, Muslim Brotherhood, or any other allegedly 'progressive' islamic movements on the death penalty or punishment for apostasy, however my working assumption is that they are for it. Even if they were against it, the facts are that if they oppose it, then they are going directly against the hadiths and accepted interpretations the koran, as decided by a consensus of islamic scholars from islamic countries throughout the entire history of the religion.

    This is where you are confused. By enacting a constitution, these Arab states are not following the Hadith and the Sharia, they are following civil laws...Do you see what i am saying?

    Regarding marriage, almost all muslim states that I listed above are clear - muslim women are committing a criminal offence by marrying outside the religion. They go to jail if they do it.

    This is a very valid point, but then again, you are misinformed! These women are not committing criminal offences, they are committing "Cultural" offences. It is a big shame in our tribal societies for any woman to marry from outside of her religion, be it, listen to this, Muslim OR Christian. Many Christian and Muslim women were killed by their own families for doing so. The family member who committed such a crime is prosecuted by the "Civil Law". Now, if a woman decided to go against the trend, she has the option of a civil marriage and please tell me you know that we have civil marriages in the Arab world.

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    In some of those countries there is also gender inequality in the right to take multiple spouses.

    This I agree with you! But in Tunisia, for Example, multiple spouses is illegal...Please tell me you knew that.

    The facts are very simple. Islam mandates death or severe punishment for apostasy. This is inherently inconsistent with human rights and civilised society. Islam prohibits freedom to choose a husband for its women. That is also incompatible with basic human rights for women.There is no getting around that fact, because virtually every muslim scholar agrees on these two issues, and they have been core tenets of Islam for 1 1/2 millenia.

    Again, I do not know if you are intentionally doing it or by accident. You started by making the wrong assumption about the Arab states, followed that up with mixing them with other none Arab states, put it in a blender and finally added the final touch of sprinkling some Islam to the mix and presented as a Muslim cake.

    Again, Islam does! Arab states, with the exception of Saudi Arabia and Sudan DON'T!

    If any political movement in the muslim countries removes these restrictions and punishments, then that will be great.

    How can they remove something that is not there!

    But that will only be possible by REJECTING core tenets of islam as commanded in the koran and hadiths.
    It is only by becoming to some extent anti-islamic that reform can occur.


    Frankly Ghost, you are not the judge of that, we are, correct? Secondly, you could be a Muslim and living in a civil society as in the vast majority of Muslims in the Arab world. There are a fringe group that does not like that but they are dealt with severely. As for us taking dictations from others on how to reform, I wish them good luck. When you clean your state from Pat Robertson who wants to Nuke Iran because it is the devil and who implies that the people of New Orleans deserve what they got because of their partying, and from your top ranking Army General who stated "My God was bigger than his. I knew that my God was a real God and his was an idol." you will have the right to breach reform.

    And that is why non-racist non-muslims, who have actually lived in muslim societies, and interacted and had relationships with muslims, still ardently oppose islam on moral grounds. It is because certain core tenets of the religion are fundamentally barbaric, uncivilised, and totally inconsistent with liberty and human rights. No amount of finger-waving by apologists like yourself alters those facts.

    I think you came to the wrong thread Ghost! We were talking about a man who had similar poor attempt as yours in presenting Arabs as backward Muslims. My argument was about such attempt. I did not argue in defence of Islam if you have noticed, I argued about the Arab states that had a Muslim majority. You are swinging aimlessly in hope of presenting an argument that has more holes than a slice of Swiss cheese.
     
    #32     Feb 15, 2011