vvv, I disagree. Revenge is an absolute necessity. If we don't rid the world of these scumbags, they will hit us again. I am reserving my compassion for people who deserve compassion. We must preserve the American way of life and we must preserve the Free World. We have no option but to take retribution for this act of war by Islamic terrorism. As President Bush said, "we must make no distinction between the terrorists who committed these acts and the countries that harbor them". God Bless America and God Bless the US Army, Airforce and Navy. I will fully support whatever military action the Pentagon decides to take against the pure evil of Islamic terrorism. The terrorists will undoubtedly be erased from the face of the planet.
candletrader, i understand your stance from a psychological viewpoint. but if you look at the realities of history you'll see that policies dictated by revenge have always backfired, ultimately leading to greater suffering on both sides, as in germany after the 1st world war which was to be broken but which only resulted in hitler being able to come to power or northern irelands or the israel/palestine never ending conflict being prime examples of absolutely senseless and indeterminate suffering motivated more by violence and resulting revenge rather than policies cut out to bring lasting peace, ie curing the causes as opposed to fiddling with symptoms. take the opposite approach, an approach not dictated by lower human emotions but rather by wisdom and a strong belief in a better future, and they were fruitful, as in eg germany and japan after the 2nd world war. the extremely wise decision was taken to NOT break those countries and their peoples in spite of the crimes committed by them, and the result was upstanding democratic nations that have contributed strongly to the international democratic community,
vvv, " an approach not dictated by lower human emotions but rather by wisdom and a strong belief in a better future, and they were fruitful, as in eg germany and japan after the 2nd world war. the extremely wise decision was taken to NOT break those countries and their peoples in spite of the crimes committed by them" I agree with the approach you mentioned not to attack civilians but we did punish the leaders of these 2 countries and they were put on trial and then put to death. The same should be done to those responsible for This.
we're in full agreement that the perpetrators of yesterdays horrendous crimes against humanity have to be brought to legal justice, and i'm confident that they will be. we just musn't let anger and hatred be our advisors for shaping our future ways of peacefully coexisting on this planet, we've got to work at finding humane solutions that will, if not remove, at least reduce the causes that lead to people becoming liable to misguidance by self declared "leaders" probably more often than not more interested in their personal gains than their instrumentalised objectives such as religious goals, and their followers thus committing atrocities in the false instrumentalised name of religion or whatever, the only way we can approximate that ultimate objective of humanity is by accepting that true as opposed to artificially imposed peace will always emanate from the art of jointly developing compromise but clear win/win solutions between the valid and legitimate real interests of parties involved in a conflict and thereby offering the peoples involved a true and worthy perspective for the future, give people true hope for a better future and you'll make it a lot harder for terrorists to recruit a following without which they cannot operate, as in eg the israel/palestine conflict which is ultimately responsible for a lot of crimes with international repercussions, very probably including the worst terrorist attack recorded in history, the attacks on the us yesterday.
I simply await the response of the US Army, Airforce and Navy. I will support 100% anything that they decide. I will place my faith in the US armed forces. They will do the right thing. God Bless America.
(just CC-ing my reply from another thread) while i completely understand your feelings, candletrader, and in no way condone the barbaric attacks, i do think it is very important to remain rational on this issue. matters as these are always much more complicated than they appear on the surface, so provoking blind hatred will certainly result in much more harm than good. the fact is that a) as of now, no one can say with 100% certainty that there were arabs behind that, and b) arabs have much more tangible reasons to hate US (as prime supporter of Israel) than their "crazy religion". i'm not saying that your anger is unjustified, no! but if you think about it, it is likely that the terrorists behind these terrible acts were probably in a very similar state of mind than you are at the moment. - jaan
jaan, you are correct in your way of thinking, but i don't feel it will be 100% effective by it self. The US over looks too many incidents. Whether we are guilty of similar actions/retaliations in the past or the future is a mute point. If we do not come together and raise up against ALL enemies (economically or Militarily) this will only happen again. The US needs to put aside it's intra national differences, we are one; and others MUST realize and respect this. If you pass me by in the streets you won't recognize me, but know I'm your brother! peace
I'm with Candletrader on this one. I just found out that my Uncle(a NYC firefighter) was seriously injured but still alive. I might be acting on emotions here but I want to see heads roll !!!! Not civilians but who ever is behind this needs to pay! I fully support our Armed Forces. God Bless America.
They found the bags of a terrorist who apparently missed his connection at one of the airports, and they contained a fuel calculator, flight manuals for the Boeing planes, and most importantly Islamic materials including the Koran. I read somewhere that Islam's roots are from the same twelve tribes that Israel came from thousands of years ago, and that they share a lot of the same history, but they went their separate ways with the split of the Northern and Southern tribes (2,500 years ago or more) . Anybody have more info on this it would be interesting to hear. The conclusions I draw from this is that we may be in a continuation of this religous war that has now drawn the US into the fray through being accomplices with Israel, and/or being of predominantly Christian origin. Here is more info on history of Islam, Christianity and Judaism http://www.geocities.com/capitolhill/senate/5758/ds-02.htm
islam, judaism and christianity share the exact same roots, ie they go back to abraham and his sons, ie muhammed from ishmael, moses and jesus from isaac, and we all believe in the same god. some 8 million american citizens are considered to be muslims, and islamic religious leaders have clearly distanced themselves and their religion from these fanatical acts of misled fundamentalists. as lacking every basis in their religious beliefs. By Caryle Murphy and Emily Wax Washington Post Staff Writers Wednesday, September 12, 2001; Page B06 Major American Muslim organizations yesterday forcefully condemned the terrorist attacks in New York and Washington and called on their communities to donate blood, medical aid and other assistance for the victims. But they also voiced fears of a backlash if the perpetrators turn out to be Muslim, and urged Islamic institutions to take extra precautions. "This is a deplorable attack beyond imagination, and we stand shoulder to shoulder with all Americans in bringing the perpetrators to justice," said Salam Al Marayati, of the Muslim Public Affairs Council. "We offer our condolences and any other kind of resources we can to support the victims of these attacks." Mindful of how Muslims were harassed after the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing, many Washington area Muslims quickly assumed a low profile. Female university students who wear hijab, the Islamic head scarves, decided not to attend classes. Islamic schools closed early, and worshipers at the District's Islamic Center were racked with worry. "We don't want this to be 1995 all over again," said Mohammed Jadir, 27, a retired soccer player from Morocco. "Everybody's waiting for what the president will say. We have to reserve judgment. This is not something that can be guessed." "This is a terrible time, not only for Muslims but for all believing people who believe in coexistence," said Mohamad Yusuff, a D.C. government employee and editor of the newsletter Voice of Islam, which is printed in Silver Spring. "No true Muslim would do anything like this. This is an attack on American sovereignty in my view [that] can only be rivaled by the attack on Pearl Harbor." Only hours after the initial attacks, hate e-mail began arriving at Muslim organizations, and some Washington area Muslims were harassed. As Layla Al Khateeb, 31, and a male colleague left the Iraq Foundation in Washington, a man confronted her friend and asked where he was from. When he replied that he was from Iraq, Khateeb recalled, the man said, "Good, why don't you guys drop another bomb on us?" John Voll, professor of Islamic history at Georgetown University's School of Foreign Service, said three students e-mailed him that they could not attend his midday class because they feared going out in their head scarves. "They are pretty distraught because they think they're going to get blamed for it," Voll said. Al Huda School in Silver Spring and Washington Islamic Academy in Springfield sent students home early as a precaution, their principals said. "I'm very sad. I hope it has nothing to do with Arabs and Muslims," said Jordanian-born Saleh Saleh, 45, principal of the academy. "I send my condolences to the families of those who've suffered in this terrible incident." Some Muslims stressed that they were as hurt and bewildered as other Americans. "We're just as horrified by this, just as scared that we may be victims, as anyone else," said Kamal Nawash, a Muslim lawyer in Virginia and a candidate in upcoming elections for the Virginia House of Delegates. "If one Christian bigot commits a crime, that doesn't make all Christians criminals," said Mahdi Bray, a Virginia resident and president of the Coordinating Council of Muslim Organizations. "Just the fact that one Muslim group may have committed this criminal act doesn't mean all Muslims are supportive." The District-based Council on American-Islamic Relations urged Muslim medical professionals and relief agencies to offer help to hospitals and relief workers. The Islamic-American Zakat Foundation in Bethesda and American Muslim Foundation in Alexandria announced blood drives. The council -- like some other Muslim groups -- also urged Muslims who wear Islamic attire to stay "out of public areas for the immediate future." It also suggested that community leaders ask for additional police patrols near mosques, report suspicious packages to police and take down descriptions of suspicious people or vehicles. At the Islamic Center, the manager, who asked not to be named, said that if the perpetrators are Muslim, the Islamic community needs to condemn their acts. "There is a responsibility by Muslims to say terrorism is wrong," he said. "It's very simple." © 2001 The Washington Post Company ps, just found some sayings of muhammed on the web: Examples of the Prophet's sayings The Prophet said: 'God has no mercy on one who has no mercy for others.' 'None of you truly believes until he wishes for his brother what he wishes for himself.' 'He who eats his fill while his neighbor goes without food is not a believer. ' 'The truthful and trusty businessman is associated with the prophets the saints, and the martyrs.' 'Powerful is not he who knocks the other down, indeed powerful is he who controls himself in a fit of anger. ' 'God does not judge according to your bodies and appearances but He scans your hearts and looks into your deeds.' 'A man walking along a path felt very thirsty. Reaching a well he descended into it, drank his fill and came up. Then he saw a dog with its tongue hanging out, trying to lick up mud to quench its thirst. The man saw that the dog was feeling the same thirst as he had felt so he went down into the well again and filled his shoe with water and gave the dog a drink. God forgave his sins for this action.' The Prophet was asked: 'Messenger of God, are we rewarded for kindness towards animals?' He said, 'There is a reward for kindness to every living thing.' Does Islam tolerate other beliefs? It is one function of Islamic law to protect the privileged status of minorities, and this is why non-Muslim places of worship have flourished all over the Islamic world. History provides many examples of Muslim tolerance towards other faiths: when the caliph Omar entered Jerusalem in the year 634, Islam granted freedom of worship to all religious communities in the city. What do Muslims think about Jesus? Muslims respect and revere Jesus, and await his Second Coming. They consider him one of the greatest of God's messengers to mankind. A Muslim never refers to him simply as 'Jesus', but always adds the phrase 'upon him be peace'. ----- that, i suppose, is the difference between true religion, and terrorist acts that lay a false claim to being motivated by religion.