ddefina, Just curious, I noticed on your post on p.10 of this thread that you signed off as "Rabbi C". This means that you are a rabbi, no? regarding the Biblical quote: while these words resonate, and certainly seem relevant or at least curiously coincidental, i also think it is true that Biblical passages are often open to alternative interpretations my sincere wish is that it should not be necessary to be on one side or the other. maybe i am naieve, idealistic, or just plain stupid, i don't know over the course of human history i would bet that the 2 leading causes of death and misery have been 1) religion, and 2) nationalism as I said previously, i am certainly NOT anti-Jew, neither am i anti-Arab. i personally know many good people who happen to be Jewish, and many good people who are Arabic. it seems a shame these two groups are locked in an apparently eternal struggle. How will it ever be resolved? (that's a rhetorical question) regarding the terrorist attacks, this is beyond religion or nationalism - it is calculated murder. and i am with everyone on this board in my hope that those responsible are swiftly located and punished
i couldn't agree more. the only positive aspect to have arisen from this nightmare is that the us has as of yesterday seriously re-engaged in the middle east peace process, and an advancing peace process between israel and palestinians really is the sine qua non for reducing the potential for violence between the two main parties as well as against third parties, it's rather unlikely that this tragedy could have occurred had the peace deal brokered by clinton been accepted by barak and arafat in 2000 as opposed to it having failed, not over substantial issues, but over mere window dressing differences. but today both peres and arafat realise that the viability of their political positions is to the largest extent dependent on the survival of the peace process in more than just name, not least to prevent hardliners on both sides from taking over, unequivocably stressing the supreme importance of making real progress to peres and arafat is also the duty of both the us and the european union and every other peace loving democratic nation. and things hadn't really looked that bad a year ago. i really hope that this terrible tragedy will at the very least serve as a wake up call presenting an opportunity not to be passed up to tackling the real underlying problems.
Originally posted by roger2 "over the course of human history i would bet that the 2 leading causes of death and misery have been 1) religion, and 2) nationalism" and religions are just fairy tales.. i know this angers some people, but wake up..you're basically brainwashed if you are religious.
>> .. to be at peace with muslim radicals it would take the complete conversion of America to Islam.. << I would even change it to: .. to be at peace with muslim radicals it would take the complete conversion of the whole world to Islam.. !!!! and vvv >>..............it's rather unlikely that this tragedy could have occurred had the peace deal brokered by clinton been accepted by barak and arafat in 2000 as opposed to it having failed, not over substantial issues, but over mere window dressing differences. << it seems to me that You didnt follow those meetings careful enough. Barak accpted fully, the Clinton and American peace proposal, but Arafat didnt!!! I think, the ones who are behind this cruel attack should be punished, and the whole world should fight "Terror(ists). My sincere thoughts are with the victims and their families. eli
Now, it simply becomes a matter of sitting back, relaxing and waiting for our military force to annihilate the moslem ba***ds. God Bless America and God Bless the Airforce, Navy and Army.
Hey Candle, that's really sick, totally apart from the fact that it's not going to work anyway, just the opposite. We can't even protect the Pentagon, but you probably still believe we won Vietnam or did a great job in Somalia. Yo, go get a Reality Check for a change, there's a PHYSICAL LAW, ACTION = REACTION, get it? And anyway, we're not talking about Moslems here, we're talking about fanatical CRIMINALS and MADNESS just MASQUERADING AS ISLAM. You're probably the same type of bigot redneck starting a witchhunt on moslems in this country, of which there are millions, in all kinds of newsgroups and chats on the web. Bush Supports Islamic Religious Extremists Bush`s Faustian Deal With the Taliban By ROBERT SCHEER The Los Angeles Times Enslave your girls and women, harbor anti-U.S. terrorists, destroy every vestige of civilization in your homeland, and the Bush administration will embrace you. All that matters is that you line up as an ally in the drug war, the only international cause that this nation still takes seriously. That`s the message sent with the recent gift of $43 million to the Taliban rulers of Afghanistan, the most virulent anti-American violators of human rights in the world today. The gift, announced last Thursday by Secretary of State Colin Powell, in addition to other recent aid, makes the U.S. the main sponsor of the Taliban and rewards that "rogue regime" for declaring that opium growing is against the will of God. So, too, by the Taliban`s estimation, are most human activities, but it`s the ban on drugs that catches this administration`s attention. Never mind that Osama bin Laden still operates the leading anti-American terror operation from his base in Afghanistan, from which, among other crimes, he launched two bloody attacks on American embassies in Africa in 1998. Sadly, the Bush administration is cozying up to the Taliban regime at a time when the United Nations, at U.S. insistence, imposes sanctions on Afghanistan because the Kabul government will not turn over Bin Laden. The war on drugs has become our own fanatics` obsession and easily trumps all other concerns. How else could we come to reward the Taliban, who has subjected the female half of the Afghan population to a continual reign of terror in a country once considered enlightened in its treatment of women? At no point in modern history have women and girls been more systematically abused than in Afghanistan where, in the name of madness masquerading as Islam, the government in Kabul obliterates their fundamental human rights. Women may not appear in public without being covered from head to toe with the oppressive shroud called the burkha , and they may not leave the house without being accompanied by a male family member. They`ve not been permitted to attend school or be treated by male doctors, yet women have been banned from practicing medicine or any profession for that matter. The lot of males is better if they blindly accept the laws of an extreme religious theocracy that prescribes strict rules governing all behavior, from a ban on shaving to what crops may be grown. It is this last power that has captured the enthusiasm of the Bush White House. The Taliban fanatics, economically and diplomatically isolated, are at the breaking point, and so, in return for a pittance of legitimacy and cash from the Bush administration, they have been willing to appear to reverse themselves on the growing of opium. That a totalitarian country can effectively crack down on its farmers is not surprising. But it is grotesque for a U.S. official, James P. Callahan, director of the State Department`s Asian anti-drug program, to describe the Taliban`s special methods in the language of representative democracy: "The Taliban used a system of consensus-building," Callahan said after a visit with the Taliban, adding that the Taliban justified the ban on drugs "in very religious terms." Of course, Callahan also reported, those who didn`t obey the theocratic edict would be sent to prison. In a country where those who break minor rules are simply beaten on the spot by religious police and others are stoned to death, it`s understandable that the government`s "religious" argument might be compelling. Even if it means, as Callahan concedes, that most of the farmers who grew the poppies will now confront starvation. That`s because the Afghan economy has been ruined by the religious extremism of the Taliban, making the attraction of opium as a previously tolerated quick cash crop overwhelming. For that reason, the opium ban will not last unless the U.S. is willing to pour far larger amounts of money into underwriting the Afghan economy. As the Drug Enforcement Administration`s Steven Casteel admitted, "The bad side of the ban is that it`s bringing their country--or certain regions of their country--to economic ruin." Nor did he hold out much hope for Afghan farmers growing other crops such as wheat, which require a vast infrastructure to supply water and fertilizer that no longer exists in that devastated country. There`s little doubt that the Taliban will turn once again to the easily taxed cash crop of opium in order to stay in power. The Taliban may suddenly be the dream regime of our own war drug war zealots, but in the end this alliance will prove a costly failure. Our long sad history of signing up dictators in the war on drugs demonstrates the futility of building a foreign policy on a domestic obsession. The Los Angeles Times Hey, we've got to bring the criminals who did this to justice, but let's not go overboard and start a witchhunt blaming innocent people just because they share a religion with criminal mad men because some feel the need for vengeance. I don't want to be blamed of genocide either just because I'm a Christian like Milosevic of Yougoslavia was.
Well, no, you don't anger me by saying that. In fact some relegions appear to make some people susceptible to manipulation. But having no religion at all is imo a guarantee for being brainwashed sooner or later.
OK Candletrader, you've made your point numerous times now. There's no need to repeat your utterly simplistic view to the world again and again. Your repeated call for violence and conflict as well as rejection of reason actually makes me believe that you and TraderX - with whom you had a very weird conflict a couple of weeks ago - are one and the same person. And even if you're not, I can't take you seriously anymore. ______________________ simplicity is dangerous
I think that the veneer of civilisation is just veeerrrry thin and artificial, give us half an excuse, be it because we feel that we got a bad deal, that we're being oppressed, garner that with some nationalism etc, and of we go. I remember visiting Belgrade/Yougoslavia, just an hours flight from West Europe, during Communist times, and it's just like nobody in the whole wide world would have expected the unbelievable crimes that were committed in all the republics that wanted and later got independence there just a couple of years later, by people who had previously been perfectly normal, just like you and me, then they start mutilating, cutting of peoples noses etc, raping, killing tens of thousands, all for nothing, and all in the name of stupid nationalism. I think we've just got to keep making an active effort at subduing the beast that is in all of us, no matter how badly hurt we feel. And yes, I'm just as sick to the stomach about all of this as anybody else, but that's exactly the reason why I want it to end by working for a politically negotiated solution to the Israel/Palestine conflict and not going on and on and on with hatred and violence.