Tell me what you would do..

Discussion in 'Professional Trading' started by Siwash, Aug 29, 2003.

  1. Siwash


    I turned 35 this year. It has made be feel pretty reflective. I have been is a sales job for 6 years that pays me about $60,000 Canadian.I don't like it much and am looking to do something different. I have always been interested in trading,althoughI have never traded . I live in Vancouver so I grew up with all the crazy stories tha came out of the VSE.Then I stumbled onto ET.. And I swear I can't get enough of it,I spent 2 hours yesterday reading Marketsurfer's surf reports from 2000 and on,I didn't understand a lick but I was glued to it. I picked up a copy of the Van Tharpe/June book and can hardly put it down.

    I think the post I saw that really got me was "trading is a mix of german engineering and eastern philosophy" I'm into mediation and love German cars etc.

    I figure that I could spend the next 6-8 months learning and by then I could scratch together $10,000 us to start,I know it's not much.

    The other thought I had is to try to get a job with a prop trader like Swift-trade. I'm not sure I would make any money,but it might be a good education for a short period.

    So there you go,I am a single guy without a lot of bills, and without a lot of money. I am throwing this out there to get some ideas,thanks in advance.

    not even a newbie
  2. Solace


    Well, I'll give you my two cents. Before you quit your job and leap into the world of trading, try learning a methodology that fits your personality. Whether that is a moving average crossover system or a system based on support and resistance, etc. Then after learning technical anaylsis and a methology, paper trade for at least six months before you go to work. If you are profitable with paper, then move to 1 lots. But don't just jump in blind to this stuff. It takes YEARS!

    Good luck, and I like you Canadians (good folk).
  3. Siwash


    Thanks for the reply, if anything I think I am patient enough to take it slow, I really do find it all quite fascinating..learning will be fun. Thanks again for taking the time to reply.
  4. Hawker


    The other thought I had is to try to get a job with a prop trader like Swift-trade. I'm not sure I would make any money,but it might be a good education for a short period.

    Exercise big caution if you're considering a Proprietary Trading firm. Use a magnifier to read the fine print back and forth. Certainly don't you only have to pay for your education but also for all your losses when trading.
    Good Luck.
  5. NX100


    i believe bright trading has an office up there. you might want to contact them and see what they can offer. they are a prop firm, but i think you might have to contribute 25k...not sure so you should call them and ask. or just pm don bright here on et. good luck.
  6. Swish


    Many folks develop a romantic idea of what trading's going to be like. It's hard grueling work, constantly challenging your psyche and discipline. My recommendation is to swing trade only (since you have a job and have less than PDT rules require to intraday trade).

    In my opinion, financial depth (in today's markets) is one of the entry requirements to being a successful trader. I wouldn't even begin to think about quitting a "paying" job till I had a bit of experience, a wad of trading capital, AND a financial reserve that would pay my living expenses for at least 12-18 mo or so.

    You will probably lose for a while, which is a good thing while you're developing discipline and a trader's mindset. Many people bombed out in 2000 due to excess and lack of risk management (because they had not sufficiently experienced loss as they developed).
  7. sempai


    Dear Friend of Bills,

    Forget about trading. Just start drinking again now (you will anyway if you trade) and save yourself the $10k you're going to lose... I mean use, to start trading with.
  8. i compare your situation - single and few bills and not a lot of money ~ to my situation when i started - married with 2 children and a mortgage but a fair amount of money - that money coming form selling [giving away] a small business that i had that i got burnt out from running and wanted to do something different.

    at the time i the data feed was esignal fm - and if you hung those wires just right and put foil on the ends in just the right amount - you could get quotes unless of course you had just entered a trade. that coupled with the busy singals you got when you called a broker - quickly showed me that i wasnt going to make it daytrading stocks or futures - so i decided to trade options - predominantly selling equity puts and selling a combination of oex put/call credit spreads. the oex worked well and the put selling also worked well and i was making enough of a living to justify what i was doing and thus increase my trading size. this increase correlated with a market u-turn and i pretty much blew out my account in 3 months what i accumulated in the previous 8 months plus starting capital. - i had $20k to go until i got to the point where i had agreed with my wife that i would quit and get a job - electronic trading and the eminis saved my butt and i have since been able to trade very successfully for a living making more then i had ever dreamt was possible.

    so much for some background - your thread topic was tell you what i would do. with your current situation - IF this is your dream then i would go for it and whatever happens - happens - this is the lack of responsibility to anyone but yourself that you describe speaking BUT DON'T go into debt or do something that can cause you additional implications if things dont work out - like deciding you just can't make it unless you daytrade stocks but dont have enough capital to meet PDT so you max out a number of credit cards to raise the money. earn your own starting capital and if you lose it - so be it - you will have to get a job and raise some more money if you are ever going to want to trade again.

    from my own experiences - i wanted to trade for a living and so that represented making consistent amounts of money on a weekly basis which essentially equated to daytrading. i cant image daytrading stocks for a living with the amount of capital/size you would be able to trade and then would then lead me to suggest trying to trade futures BUT i would suggest that you stay away from the emini sp to start as i think that is by far the hardest index to trade now but its the one that is most talked about and lures the most people. i trade it - but if i was starting today i dont think i would become profitable doing so in time to save my account. i think that the dj mini and maybe the nd mini if it will continue to show volume pickup are the better indexes to start with - and i also like the eurex indes of the dj euro stoxx 50 and the german bund- DON'T trade the dax.

    start slow and develop good trading habits and a method-plan that you can consistently implement and follow. you have minimal capital but you do have enough if you don't 'waste' it. paper trade as honestly as you can first - then after profitable doing that try trading real money. first trade a 1 lot so that you get the feel for getting into and out of your market - then try to move to a 2 lot where you would be able to take a partial profit on 1 contract and then move a stop to breakeven while trailing the other contract trying to get a bigger move when it occurs. DON'T be drawn into try to trade big size to soon - consistency is your biggest objective at this point.

    your capital is minimal and it's important not to waste it trading before you have reason to believe you can be profitable - being excited and trading too soon is a pitfall that many/most traders run into. besides capital - you will find that numerous psychological implications are going to confront you. when you start second guessing yourself on everything you do - and start taking losses personally as failure instead of a situation that is just part of trading - you will start focusing on the loss first and not think of the method you are supposed to be trading and with diminishing capital since like almost everyone - you will lose before you gian - you will be trading 'scared' money along with the head stuff. its normal - it can be overcome - but it can only be done if you can start thinking of your trading with detachment and part of a process as opposed to staring at every tick and the gian-loss it represents and what you thus think of yourself.

    again - start slow and good luck - i hope you realize your dreams.
  9. CalTrader

    CalTrader Guest

    You need to spend some time working - probably at lower dollars - at a firm that will train you. Ten K would only work if you can find a prop firm that will take you on as a true apprentice, thoroughly training you and providing a path forward into trading. I know of none in your area - doesn't mean there aren't any. Use those marketing/networking skills to tap into the financial community and start talking to real people - off this board - directly.

  10. Please don't take this the Wong way, but this is the exact reason we have the PDT rules today....too many people in the 90's did this same exact thing and then when they lost the farm....they complained to the NASD, SEC and got an attorney...Here is what you should do in my opinion: start reading IBD, ET, watching Bloomberg news ( if you can get it) and look for a trading simulator that you can stick on you desk top at work...paper trade three different ways for six months: Position trade with 10k, swing trade with 10k, and scalp with 10k....then chart the results and see what worked best for you....if you still have the urge, kick it up a notch and find a good firm with good support and start trading a small account. ,,,part time,until you can replace your income with your trading....remember though, you cannot trade scared so if you need X income to live you have to be able to erain it trading...good luck
    #10     Aug 29, 2003