Tell me if this setup is stupid

Discussion in 'Options' started by kj5159, Mar 12, 2019.

  1. drm7

    drm7

  2. JSOP

    JSOP

    As long as you do UNLEVERAGED trades (that means NO shorting and no buying on margin) with the interest payments ONLY and not 1 cent of the principal no matter how much you lose, then you will be fine. Your principal would at least be preserved. The return would just vary year from year according to your luck. Your setup is fine. That's how many of the market-indexed funds operate anyway.

    The only potential loss that you could incur is just like what @kmiklas said is inflation and that is assuming you lose 100% of the interest payments investment every single time.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
    #22     Mar 13, 2019
    murray t turtle likes this.
  3. ajacobson

    ajacobson

    The strategy used to be called the 90/10 when interest rates we 10%. There we actually mutual funds that specialized in this. Today it is fairly common in bank issued structured notes and a variant is used in index-linked annuities
     
    #23     Mar 14, 2019
    murray t turtle likes this.
  4. kj5159

    kj5159

    Wow, a different era I guess. Could you tell me more about these bank issued structured notes? I thought structured products (besides annuities) were no longer in existence?
     
    #24     Mar 14, 2019
  5. ajacobson

    ajacobson

    Here's a recent one. Still a very robust market - especially overseas.
     
    #25     Mar 14, 2019
  6. tsznecki

    tsznecki

    This is Taleb's barbell strategy. Works if you can take the hit from inflation.
     
    #26     Mar 15, 2019
  7. kj5159

    kj5159

    Thanks for the info! This is a fascinating little gem:

    "As a result of such rebalancing, the index may not include any ETFs and may
    allocate its entire exposure to the money market position, the return on which will always be less than the sum of the
    return on 3-month USD LIBOR plus 0.65% per annum. Historically, a significant portion of the index has been in the
    money market position."

    There are some very sophisticated-sounding ways for GS to screw you if you buy this thing.

    I'm surprised they're able to have this product be a CD, I guess there's some language in the rules for what a CD can be that says something to the effect of: "the issuer can choose how they set up the interest rate" etc.

    I've wondered about marketing some kind of structured product to pension funds, pretty much having the result of operating an insurance company that sells giant annuities/annuity-like products to pension funds. Are they the target market for stuff like this?
     
    #27     Mar 15, 2019
  8. %%
    And plenty of money was made, plenty of mortgages was/were bought @10% APR.The bank also made a killing off what they called ''credit life''' A HIGH priced term insurance policy for the amount of the loan LOL-LOL:D:D.Some have so much student debt they cant even afford a cheap mortgage @ todays rates.
     
    #28     Mar 15, 2019
  9. sle

    sle

    Nah, it's based on an immutable formula which GS can't really influence (this is a standard CPPI . Of course, you are taking GS credit risk and getting shafted on the actual cost of the structure, but that's a given.

    Not really. Most structured notes buyers are either retail or family offices. Some of them are pretty sophisticated and have good selection process and some are the proper dumb money. Variable and index annuities are a separate world and there is a whole sub-industry of structured products that is geared towards hedging that risk for insurers.
     
    #29     Mar 15, 2019
    murray t turtle likes this.
  10. kj5159

    kj5159

    Lol @ "the proper dumb money".

    So there are structured products that insurers will buy to hedge the structured products that they sell? I would've thought they do that in house.
     
    #30     Mar 16, 2019