You are a trader like it or not. Why come back in 10-20 yrs for a comparison? Because that is the time frame that you need to have to be an index investor. A one year or less time frame on a portfolio of leveraged securities that you time with the market? Thats trading buddy. Pretty much the definition of. Its not day trading or swing trading, but its trading. The reason I wanted to come back in a decade for a comparison is because I am not a typical trader, I have a longer term mentality, because I understand that only great traders/investors can make money over the LONG TERM. As for me posting my results, contact me in 10 years. We'll see who did better. I do not care about a one year fluke year. Yes you made more money than me this year, a lot more. but I made money last year as well, while almost every index investor out there lost a ton of money. You didn't because you weren't even in the game yet. Your time will come though.
INDEX PIKER, Read this post like a book. Read, reread, read one more time and then repeat that process many more times. Open up your mind so you can actually learn and better yourself. I have not seen you attempt to do this once. Instead, you have just challenged everyone here to whip it out and see who has the biggest schlong (figuritively of course). I hope it satisfies you to post on an anonymous site and tell everyone how great you are and how much smarter you are. Maybe its time to actually learn from someone. Like was said before, you may do fine for another 6 months, 2 years, maybe even longer. BUT, you will eventually lose a lot of money and be seriously humbled if you do not change your mindset. Also, leveraged etf's have NO, absolutely NO place in an index portfolio. I thought you were at least smart enough to know that.:eek: . When you said you were using leverage I figured you were refering to margin. Maybe your day of reckoning will come quicker than I thought. ps. Please do not ask me to show you my p/l statement again in response to this post. As I've said before, you've done better than me THIS year and I have no reason to get in a pissing contest with you.
you mentioned you run your risk on a similar level than a broad market index and now you say you use leveraged funds. You are simply contradicting your statements. You would have been forced to liquidate your positions at the worst possible loss would you have held the same during the sell-off in 2008. But I dont think you even get that point. QUOTE]Quote from Index piker: Yes, I use leveraged funds. I won't be disclosing any more of my decision criteria than this (it's purely discretionary mostly determined by price). I will disclose when I move in/out of investments or cash but I will not be disclosing the specific fund or etf. Again I expect sales to be relatively rare, except for less risky investments viewed as a cash substitute. Sorry about that but if you are a legit trader ( as your posts indicate ) you will understand why. [/QUOTE]
Come back in 10 years? Why not just start documenting the next 10 years in january. or better yet Why don't you just come back when I have a draw down ,sound fair?
BS. I never made such a statement. I specifically disclosed in this post to flatron 5th post of the thread. Please get your facts straight.
I am a professional Omaha and NLHE player and recently introduced to trading (last 3 years or so). I'll wager your non-IRA account balance ($100K), or an amount up to that number, that I can beat your return from 1/1/2010 to 6/30/2010 by at least a factor of 2. You hit 30% and I would need to hit 60% or better to win. Minimum account value of $10k for the contest, up to whatever you deem appropriate. We can let the site administrator, or some mutually agreed person to verify the results at the end of term. We agree to use no more than 4:1 leverage. Any tradeable, any asset-class, as long as leverage does not exceed 4x. That's it. Contact me via PM.
Boy you just don't get it do you. By documenting your p/l you are in effect measuring your performance weekly, daily, maybe even hourly. To be an index investor you need to think multiple years. Anything less you are a trader. You should only be monitoring your account once a quarter at the most, yet you are bragging about weekly results. Not long term in my opinion. You call yourself a passive index investor yet you ignore the biggest and most important part of that, Focusing on the long term (many years) and ignoring the short term (less than a year). Theres nothing passive about gloating about a week of gains. Why would you document your p/l every day or weekly as a passive investor? I will continue to focus on the long term and lets look at each others p/l 10 years from now. I could care less how you are doing 4 months from now.
Put your money where your mouth is Index boy. In fact, I'll bet in 5 years you will actually be down, do to your use of leveraged etfs.
Actually I'm telling you the opposite of that, I'm not claiming to be smarter than everyone else or to have magical trading skills. I'm here to tell you that passive indexing outperforms trading in the long term. Most traders however, correctly report that they are targeting outsized returns which does present a problem for replicating returns from traditional markets or indicies. (most would do better by just reducing their goals and risk) I'm presenting my account as what is possible with a relatively passive portfolio that utilizes active trader like risk assumption.
I agree, a passive index portfolio beats 95% of traders. But, you do not have a passive index portfolio. You have a short term minded, excessively leveraged trading account. Also, your not just here to say passive indexing outperforms. You came on here BRAGGING about your 90% return this year. Your post about a 10.4% gain in one week is very telling. You have an ego, you are not very humble. You (maybe subconsiously) want to show all these traders how your methods are superior and how you are so much better. If you were a true indexer I probably would have never posted in this thread in the first place. But your not. You are a trader, and one with an ego bigger than kanye West's. Maybe a part of you wants to educate others about passive indexing, but most of you just wants to show everyone how you nailed a 90% return and can piss farther than all the other boys. Your leveraged, dangerous portfolio, GOT LUCKY, due to 8 months of bull market. I CAN"T WAIT TO SEE HOW THOSE LEVERAGED ETFS DO OVER TIME, AND HOW THEY FARE IN THE NEXT BEAR MARKET, WHENEVER THAT IS. Good luck, your gonna need it