TA - Objective or Psychological Skill?

Discussion in 'Technical Analysis' started by cornix, Jun 11, 2013.

  1. Lucrum

    Lucrum

    Then why the non stop obsession with trying to convince everyone to abandon TA? Something you've been engaged in for years.

    There are a few, believe it or not.
    Do you consider demonstrating how to lose large sums of money a better "value add" than those who point out the poor money/trade management inconsistencies and complete lack of entry timing?


    (Did you forget you put me on ignore - again) LOL
     
    #481     Jun 29, 2013
  2. cornix

    cornix

    Very good points, Jem.

    That's exactly what I meant to say too. There are many inputs in every trading decision. Outsiders only see a tip of an iceberg like "resistance breakout", when in reality it's resistance breakout which is only legit when a dozen of other factors is in place. They are usually objective being analyzed thoroughly, only seem to be subjective, often to a trader him/herself just because they are not conscious enough.

    I am psychologist as many here know and I analyze my own actions as a trader from this point of view. Every time I had intuitive "feeling", which eventually morphed into a logical rule it happened, because subliminal information became conscious. There's always some logic behind a reasonable decision. Just not always fully understood by us yet.

    So back to "academic researches"... if those academics just take raw setups from books or whatever other place and test them as they THINK they should be tested it's about the same as test neurosurgery on patients without actual experience in the field wondering why those patients tend to die so often... neurosurgery must be a delusion. :D
     
    #482     Jun 30, 2013
  3. cornix

    cornix

    Accuracy may be high or low (my live experiment so far shows 41% win rate approximately as can be read in the journal). It doesn't matter. What only matters in this business is profit relative to the risk taken.

    Losers care about the win rate too much, cause it's a matter of being right or wrong which is an issue for them. Who makes a living by trading cares of how much $ is made, not some secondary figures. :)

    And yes, it's certainly possible to look at one market, even one chart of one market and consistently profit from it.
     
    #483     Jun 30, 2013
  4. cornix

    cornix

    Tell you one thing: in the game of probability you better believe in your strategy/tactics indeed. Otherwise it becomes almost impossible to stay disciplined in doing what should be done.

    That's what happens to many traders: they don't have a method developed and tested well enough, but start trading it live. Not being confident in it they are not disciplined... as a result it turns on them and they end up losing... and blaming it on methodology (TA variation or whatever).

    Vicious self-fulfilling circle... so if you ask me, yes faith or rather confidence is important too.
     
    #484     Jun 30, 2013

  5. In other words, TA based entries have a less than 50/50 chance of being accurate? Why would you believe they have anything to do with your success? In fact, it sounds like TA is hurting you.

    Why couldn't random entries produce the same or better win rate? Apply money management, and random entries sounds like an equal or potentially better system.

    surf
     
    #485     Jun 30, 2013
  6. Isn't it simplistic to assume that random entries will give 50/50 win/loss?

    Use of stops changes the performance of any system as compared to no stops. Wide or tight stops similarly impact upon system performance.

    People use stops to avoid crippling trades and blowing out accounts, ie accept small losses so you live to fight another day. I've lost count of the number of times I have been stopped out and at some later point price moves back past my entry. That's just one of those things, I don't have Buffett's pockets.
     
    #486     Jun 30, 2013
  7. Yes, it is simplistic. If TA provides anything less than 50/50, why use it as an entry tool? Obviously the more positive runs you have after entry, the $ you will make. Having 40% or so of your entries make money means 60% are losing--- clearly there is no ADVANTAGE to using a tool that produces 60% losers on the entry. Add in the Vig and that seems equal or worse than the results available without using TA. What am I missing?
     
    #487     Jun 30, 2013
  8. wrbtrader

    wrbtrader

    Depends on the context...

    Random Entries versus Losing Trader

    Random Entries versus Profitable Trader

    I don't know a lot about "random entries" but I do know profitable traders. I'm willing to bet that a profitable trader with money management will outperform random entries with money management. :D
     
    #488     Jun 30, 2013
  9. Here is a lesson in random entries:

    http://intel.harriman-house.com/trading/testing-random-entries/

    Profitable trader predisposes that this trader uses money management-- remember, cornix is on the way to proving that TA only provides 40% or so winning trades-- yet he stil makes money. He would make money regardless of TA-- in fact TA hurts his performance. To sum it up

    TA IS A DELUSION-- but this does not mean that TA users can not make money. Astrologers can also make money in the financial markets.
     
    #489     Jun 30, 2013
  10. sheda

    sheda

    Who needs an advantage when you can control the size of your loses and over all bring in much more in than you lose? An entrys a starting point, 40% wins would be enough for me to pay for a house tens and tens of times over, as opposed to the one mortage I would spend 20-30 years paying off from a 9-5, the markets about making money.


    Cool, so you will trade the same time frame as him, you using random entrys and he using TA, and your results vs his on that time frame will teach him that lesson, then he can convert.
     
    #490     Jun 30, 2013