I was wondering if there was any good system for sale out there or if it's really all garbage as commonly believed. And if some are really making profits is it worth paying for them if you are not willing to allocate more than 10-20k to one or several systems in the beginning? Also a system can produce satisying results for a while then quickly degrade, if you buy a blackbox as most of them are I suppose the only way you will know about it is when you start losing big. Please share your experience with systems availble with for ex. Strategy Runner, Market Technologies (Vantage Point), or systems available at brokers such at Refco TradeCenter Inc. or Robbins Trading Company's AutoTrade How much do they cost and are the costs worth it ? For ex. John Holsinger systems are available for $250 month each at Robbins Trading so $3000 a year for ONE system, you better have a large account to make it worthwhile.