Swingtrading is better than intraday.

Discussion in 'Index Futures' started by TTT, Jan 19, 2019.

  1. TTT


    Maintaining a certain distance from the markets can be profitable
    He wants to be a trader but between work, family, friends and hobbies it is almost impossible to devote the time that this requires, let alone pick up pace. Do not worry, many of the traders, if not all, when they start facing that problem.

    Over the years I discovered that many traders believe that they need to be glued to the monitor throughout the day to make money and stay informed, but this can not be further from reality.

    In fact, the focus of a busy trading day is probably the most difficult to master.

    When people find out that I am a trader, they tell me compassionately how "stressful" my day should be. It's hard to blame them for those confusions since films like Wall Street or scenes deotrass like A good year for decades have done everything possible to give that image. However, the daily routines in the best hedge funds that I know are daily, though not "boring".

    Having worked with many traders with different personalities in all these years, I can say that not many are prepared for the nervous and very hectic intraday trading style that they think they should use.

    The intraday traders are constantly exposed to irrelevant news that move markets and algorithms that can stop a position instantly. This can frustrate the novice trader as the losses accumulate and, therefore, destroy any degree of confidence that the trader had in the first place.

    A much more attractive alternative and I have found that it adapts to different personalities in different cultures is what I call "swing trading in the medium term". This style can be applied to instruments with liquidity from stocks to currencies, futures and others, in periods of time between two days to several weeks.

    These periods of time can also be an optimal point for operations with few people since, by definition, intraday traders do not operate that way while institutional players use longer time horizons.

    It is a much more reasonable approach for people with full-time or part-time jobs, retired people or those who do not find the time necessary to sit in front of the monitor all day.

    Ironically, keeping some distance from the markets often also turns out to be a more profitable approach since the micro management of any operation is much more difficult and, therefore, premature stop-outs are avoided.
  2. wrbtrader


    Swingtrading is better than intraday

    Strategies used by traders determines that answer. Yet, the personal lifestyle will also have a big input into the answer. For some, swingtrading is better. For others, intraday trading is better. Others, investing or long term trading is better.

    If a trader is confused or not sure...backtest or simulate trade all the different types of trading styles to determine which one that their trade strategy performs the best to prevent wasting months or years doing one that's not suitable for the trader.

  3. tomorton


    I have never been able to trade profitably intra-day. I was a great fan of aggressive swing trading until a few years back when I realised that my with-trend positions ran further and more smoothly, while my counter-trend positions were quick, choppy and formed the majority of the losers.

    The answer was simply to make counter-trend trades the exception rather than the norm, I rarely go against the trend these days.
    murray t turtle likes this.
  4. cvds16


    really good traders know how to trade both. Intraday has it's restrictions: for example it is not realistic to trade over 20 Dax futures. So if you got more money you need to 'invest', swingtrade. I know how to do both but my account is still too small so these restrictions do not yet apply to me. I am planning to hire someone to trade a second market if I reach my limits. After that I plan to trade longer term. (think weekly / monthly)
    murray t turtle and comagnum like this.
  5. traider


    Intraday is many times harder , if you can do both well, there is no way that swing can beat intraday sharpe ratio. Think about it, intraday gives you the opportunity to compound much more frequently if you have a +ve expected return. Sadly most of the low lying intraday fruit is totally picked clean by hft and algos.
    schweiz likes this.
  6. cvds16


    yup, intraday is harder but I have an 4 dimensional algorythm that does just that. Friday this gave me a return of 1000%. I know this is not representative since it was a huge trendday in Dax. I am not expecting anything like that on a normal trading day.
  7. qlai


    You don't give the credit to whomever said this?

    First, you need to distinguish trading for Income vs trading for capital appreciation. Very different expectations.

    In my opinion, swing trading is much harder .. you take overnight risks but, by definition, take profits quicker than long(er) term trend follower. I would say if you must swing trade, buy options instead ... This pre-defines the risks and forces you to exit when your timing was wrong.
  8. Nobert


    Could you expand a little bit more on that ? Sounds interesting.
  9. Nobert


    Do you mean cathing the dips in thrends, like in 15 , 5 mins timeframes ?
  10. qlai


    My pleasure.

    Let's say you are one of the below "idiots" (myself included)

    You want to quit your sucky/limiting job/place and gain freedom!

    What do you need? You need to be able to earn enough consistent income to support yourself (preferably you got no wife and kids). You got all the pressures while operating in an environment where the only certainty are the fees and HFTs. Unless you are a trust-baby, you are trading on a tilt from the get go!

    But what if you are pretty happy with your carreer and just want to trade for extra money, intellectual challenge, and/or entertainment?

    Well, you have lots of choices. You don't care about market conditions being too difficult ... Wait it out. You don't care if you are in a bit of a draw down ... It always comes back. Hell, you don't even care if you loose all of your "play" money ... The next bonus will cover that.

    That is why you need to be very thoughtful with the strategy you choose to pursue. Can you survive bad times given the trading style's inherent pitfalls?


    Hope it was not too grim. It's a worthwhile journey, as long as you don't put too much emphasis on the destination :)

    My very humble opinion.
    #10     Jan 20, 2019
    nooby_mcnoob and themickey like this.